# NFL WEEK TWO birds with one stone **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [September 14, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107 "2023-09-14T17:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/61 "2023-09-18T17:09:08Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Points per possession? Never heard that one before. I think it’s a great way to judge the quality of an offense / defense, without including the impact of “speed of play”. You don’t win because you score lots of points, you win because you score more points than your opposition. If you score more points per possession, and possession basically trades back and forth evenly, you’re going to win. I disagree with Rex because their problem isn’t failing to get “enough” possessions (teams trade possessions pretty evenly), it’s that their defense gives up too many points per possession. I checked out the stats Denver has had 17 possessions vs 18 for their opponents, and one of their opponents possessions started with about 3 seconds left in the half. ---
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/62 "2023-09-18T17:13:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Well, this is an insane start to the season. Worst opening game in {\color{blue}\mathbf{GIANTS}} history followed by biggest comeback since 1949 apparently. Apparently the last time they didn’t score in the first 6 quarters of the season was 1934 (they didn’t score until the 8th quarter) and that year they won the NFL championship. So big blue fans don’t need to give up yet. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/63 "2023-09-18T17:15:49Z")
I felt like this was a team that should win 9 and maybe more. After last week I wasn’t sure at all though. I started being afraid last year was a fluke. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/64 "2023-09-18T17:15:54Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I checked out the stats Denver has had 17 possessions vs 18 for their opponents, and one of their opponents possessions started with about 3 seconds left in the half. I think he said they had only six possessions last week. Your point is sound, though, that it goes back and forth. The biggest gap I can envision is having one fewer drive than your opponent in the half they received the kickoff, and then an even number of drives in the half you received the kickoff. Two fewer drives if it goes to overtime, they win the coin toss and then win the game with a score. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/65 "2023-09-18T17:20:54Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > they had only six possessions last week. Their opponents had 7, and one was taking a knee to end the half. Jeez, they lost to the Raiders because they missed a PAT, and lost to Washington because W made a 2 point conversion and they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/66 "2023-09-18T17:24:41Z")
There’s also the point that it’s not always your defense being unable to get off the field that limits your possessions. Sometimes, your offense deliberately eats up the clock to keep the other team’s offense on the sideline. The Giants won at least half of their Superbowls with exactly that strategy: In 1990 against the k-gun offense of the Bills, and then in 2007 against the undefeated Patriots. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/67 "2023-09-18T18:46:38Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Sometimes, your offense deliberately eats up the clock to keep the other team’s offense on the sideline. Precisely. “Number of possessions” is never a stat that’s cited because it’s meaningless. In football you take turns, so you’re never going to have many more or less than your opponent. Now, **time** of possession matters. The offense’s job is to stay on the field until they score, and the defense’s job is to get off the field to give their offense a chance to score. And generally, if you keep a defense on the field longer it tends to get worn out and perform worse, while offenses don’t typically have that issue. So when a team has a longer time of possession that usually means they are doing better. Ultimately all that matters in the end is points, because whether you win or lose is based entirely on that. But there are stats like time of possession, yards gained, number of sacks, turnover differential, those give you a good idea of where a team’s strengths and weaknesses are outside of the score itself. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/68 "2023-09-18T19:41:26Z")
Our winner of the Bill Romanowski Evil Asshat of the Week goes to Kareem Jackson. Late, dirty hit knocks Logan Thomas out, and that’s a week after another of his dirty hits took out Jacobi Myers with a concussion. He needs to be suspended. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/69 "2023-09-18T20:17:08Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Last week the reversal was clearly correct, but last night was quite a judgement call. You think so? I thought the most definitive replay clearly showed that the ballcarrier’s (offensive lineman!) elbow was down before the ball crossed the line to gain, and the spot after the replay was correct. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/70 "2023-09-18T20:48:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Sometimes, your offense deliberately eats up the clock to keep the other team’s offense on the sideline. The Giants won at least half of their Superbowls with exactly that strategy: In 1990 against the k-gun offense of the Bills… As I recall, the Bills had a “point a minute”‘offense in that game. The problem was they only had the ball for 19 minutes. > [@Railer13](#): > > > [@muldoonthief](#): > > > > Last week the reversal was clearly correct, but last night was quite a judgement call. > > You think so? I thought the most definitive replay clearly showed that the ballcarrier’s (offensive lineman!) elbow was down before the ball crossed the line to gain, and the spot after the replay was correct. For all my fandom, I was in bed before halftime and didn’t see most of the game. I _really_ hate watching football on the east coast. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/71 "2023-09-18T22:31:52Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > You think so? I thought the most definitive replay clearly showed that the ballcarrier’s (offensive lineman!) elbow was down before the ball crossed the line to gain, and the spot after the replay was correct. That was my understanding as well from watching the TV broadcast. On replay it was pretty clearly just shy of picking up the down. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/72 "2023-09-18T22:36:07Z")
Packers Pro Bowl offensive lineman Elgton Jenkins suffered an MCL sprain in his left knee during Sunday’s loss to the Falcons, and is expected to miss several weeks. It appears to have been a “friendly fire” injury, occurring as Packers running back A.J. Dillon landed on Jenkins’ leg during a second-quarter play. > **[Packers LG Jenkins expected out multiple weeks](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38433144/packers-lg-elgton-jenkins-expected-multiple-weeks)** > > Packers left guard Elgton Jenkins is expected to miss multiple weeks because of the left knee injury he sustained in Sunday's loss at the Falcons. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/73 "2023-09-18T23:00:41Z")
All Monday Night Football games will be broadcast on ABC this fall. As someone too ~~cheap~~ principled to pay for ESPN, I’m happy even if I feel like I’m somehow crossing a picket line by watching. > **[ABC adds 10 more "Monday Night Football" games to help plug the hole left by...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/business/abc-monday-night-football-writers-strike/index.html)** > > “Monday Night Football” is back on ABC because of the ongoing strikes disrupting Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/74 "2023-09-18T23:21:55Z")
Nitpick but they’re calling tonight’s two-game MNF lineup a “doubleheader,” which seems incorrect to me. I understand a “doubleheader” to be two games played in succession, not at the same time, usually in the same venue, if not the same teams. Maybe it’s just me, I could be wrong. Perhaps that is just the baseball definition? ---
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/75 "2023-09-18T23:24:55Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > For all my fandom, I was in bed before halftime and didn’t see most of the game. I _really_ hate watching football on the east coast. You should try watching it from Europe the late games I might watch thre first half but no chance for the night games. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/76 "2023-09-18T23:38:52Z")
Yep, it doesn’t meet any of the baseball doubleheader criteria. It would be like if there were only two 4pm games on a Sunday. That would not be a “doubleheader” either. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/77 "2023-09-19T00:04:27Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Perhaps that is just the baseball definition? Maybe the football definition means you need two heads to watch both games. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/78 "2023-09-19T00:10:11Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Nitpick but they’re calling tonight’s two-game MNF lineup a “doubleheader,” which seems incorrect to me. I understand a “doubleheader” to be two games played in succession, not at the same time, usually in the same venue, if not the same teams. Maybe it’s just me, I could be wrong. Perhaps that is just the baseball definition? Well, it is the original definition, sports-wise. But, TV networks, and the league, have used “doubleheader” for televising two consecutive NFL games for a long time; on Sundays, Fox and CBS alternate in offering “doubleheader Sunday,” meaning that most\* viewers at home will be able to watch both an early (1pm ET) game, and a late (3:25pm ET) game on the same station. And, of course, those are always being played in two separate stadiums, with two separate pairs of teams, because the NFL never has teams playing twice on the same day. \*- I say “most,” because if you live in an NFL team’s home market, and they are playing at home on Sunday afternoon (either early or late), neither Fox nor CBS will run another game in your market in the other afternoon slot, even if it’s that network’s “doubleheader Sunday.” ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/79 "2023-09-19T01:07:45Z")
Oh no. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107/80 "2023-09-19T01:07:57Z")
This Saints-Panthers game is not an offensive demonsration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-week-two-birds-with-one-stone/990107.md?page=5)