# NFL: What position player(s) serve as kick holders these days and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 14, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606 "2008-09-14T21:37:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/1 "2008-09-14T21:37:50Z")
IIRC, as a general rule the second string QB used to be the guy who took the snap and held the ball when a kicker attempted a field goal or extra point. The logic being that if the play went bad the ball would be in the hands of an experienced and qualified “field general” who might be able to save the day. Also, a QB would be best suited to execute a trick play during a faked kick. Okay. So today I’m watching the Rams - Giants game. The Giants FG holder was not a QB, but the team’s punter, I think. I suspect this move away from having a QB holder is not unique with the Giants. Am I right? If I am, what is the logic behind this trend, and what is the preferred position player to use as holder? Thanks all, in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/2 "2008-09-14T21:40:40Z")
I figure it’s probably because the punter and place kicker practice together most of the time, so they become familiar with each other. The 2nd string QB is usually running the scout offense for the starting defense. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/3 "2008-09-14T22:19:55Z")
One of the backup QBs or the punter, generally. Guys with pretty good hands who are used to taking snaps. Depends on the team as to who exactly. If you remember a couple of years ago, Romo couldn’t get the snap down in that playoff game - he had started the season as the backup QB and was the holder, and kept holding throughout that year since that was what the kicking team was used to / comfortable with. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/4 "2008-09-14T23:38:32Z")
Neil Rackers of the Arizona Cardinals missed a few kicks last year because the Cardinals cut their punter who used to hold for him. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/5 "2008-09-14T23:55:10Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > One of the backup QBs or the punter, generally. Guys with pretty good hands who are used to taking snaps. Depends on the team as to who exactly. > > If you remember a couple of years ago, Romo couldn’t get the snap down in that playoff game - he had started the season as the backup QB and was the holder, and kept holding throughout that year since that was what the kicking team was used to / comfortable with. Plummer was the holder when he was with the Broncos. I don’t remember any fake FGs with him holding though. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/6 "2008-09-15T12:02:36Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > One of the backup QBs or the punter, generally. I’d be surprised if anyone here could find a cite of anybody _other_ than a QB or punter being the holder for any NFL team in the Superbowl era. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/7 "2008-09-15T14:25:16Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’d be surprised if anyone here could find a cite of anybody _other_ than a QB or punter being the holder for any NFL team in the Superbowl era. The Rams have had WR Dane Looker as thier holder since he joined the team. Jeff Wilkens used to credit his comfort with Looker as the holder as a major factor in his kicking success. I am not sure if he is still holding for Josh Brown, I cannot bear to watch thier games that closely anymore. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![UTejas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UTejas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UTejas)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/8 "2008-09-15T16:29:14Z")
Also the Steelers briefly experimented with using Antwaan Randle El as the holder on the sole basis of running trick plays where he could run or pass. It was a training camp idea that didn’t last, mostly because he couldn’t hold to the kicker’s satisfaction. Probably not worth making every field goal an adventure to set up one or two fakes over the whole year. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/9 "2008-09-15T16:31:41Z")
Lions use either the punter or backup QB. punter has the advantage of spending a lot of time with the kicker, QB has the advantage of allowing for the threat of a fake. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/10 "2008-09-16T14:58:42Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > Lions use either the punter or backup QB. punter has the advantage of spending a lot of time with the kicker, QB has the advantage of allowing for the threat of a fake. I’m guessing the other advantages of the punter are 1) used to catching long snaps (admittedly from a different stance) and 2) unlike backup QBs, has plenty of time to practice holding (I’m assuming there’s only so much punting practice one can do in a day) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/11 "2008-09-16T18:40:00Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’d be surprised if anyone here could find a cite of anybody _other_ than a QB or punter being the holder for any NFL team in the Superbowl era. The Bears used WR Brian Baschnagel during the early 1980’s. Wide receivers are at least used to catching the ball. The Rams used DB Nolan Cromwell during the late 1970’s and early 1980’s, but that was an unusual situation as Cromwell had been a wishbone quarterback in college. Wishbone quarterbacks were often converted to other positions in the pros. ---
**Author:** ![MTRG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@MTRG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTRG)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/12 "2008-09-16T18:56:19Z")
> [@UTejas](#): > > Also the Steelers briefly experimented with using Antwaan Randle El as the holder on the sole basis of running trick plays where he could run or pass. It was a training camp idea that didn’t last, mostly because he couldn’t hold to the kicker’s satisfaction. Probably not worth making every field goal an adventure to set up one or two fakes over the whole year. Hines Ward is the back-up holder this year since Charlie batch is down. I assumed it was due to his great hands and cool head. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/13 "2008-09-16T23:24:43Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I’m guessing the other advantages of the punter are 1) used to catching long snaps (admittedly from a different stance) and 2) unlike backup QBs, has plenty of time to practice holding (I’m assuming there’s only so much punting practice one can do in a day) #3 quarterbacks have all the time in the world to practice holding. Unless quarterbacks #1 and #2 are really shaky or hurt they’re lucky to get more than a dozen practice reps a week. I’m going to guesstimate that the totals look something like this: backup (#2 or #3) QB, 14; Punter, 10; Other (wideouts mostly), 3. Holder trivia: the holder for Tom Dempsey’s still NFL-record 1970 63-yard field goal was safety Joe Scarpati. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/14 "2008-09-17T03:39:32Z")
For many years, safety Charlie Waters was the holder for all the Dallas Cowboys’ place kickers. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/15 "2008-09-17T06:58:57Z")
Keep in mind that in today’s era of hyper-specialization the kicking unit is often, and perhaps usually, comprised of a place kicker, a punter and a dedicated long snapper. These 3 players all have no other job but to execute kicks, the long snapper is a deep backup lineman or tight end technically but will never see time except in a one-game emergency, and as such have little else to practice. Making them into a single working group is wise and effective. It’s not just that the punter is good at receiving a snap but it’s that he has a reliable working relationship with the long snapper. He’s had lots of practice seeing and catching that snappers particular spin and pace of ball. All in all, familiarity breeds consistency. That’s what a effective kicking game strives for. A coach who prioritizes fake-kicks and botched attempts by putting a QB or athlete back there is asking for disaster. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/16 "2008-09-17T11:17:36Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’d be surprised if anyone here could find a cite of anybody _other_ than a QB or punter being the holder for any NFL team in the Superbowl era. Tight End Jay Novacek held for kicks during the '90s for the Cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/17 "2008-09-17T11:24:28Z")
This [site](http://www.knowyourdallascowboys.com/2007/05/16/a-somewhat-incomplete-history-of-dallas-kick-holders/) has some pics with Charlie Waters and Jay Novacek, amongst others, holding. The web continues to amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/18 "2008-09-17T14:27:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > #3 quarterbacks have all the time in the world to practice holding. Unless quarterbacks #1 and #2 are really shaky or hurt they’re lucky to get more than a dozen practice reps a week. I was thinking that the #3 QB can always spend more time going over offensive plays and defensive reads for each play, looking at film, etc., even if he’s not working out with the offense. There’s not a whole lot for a punter to study. Of course, I don’t know if actual professional coaches see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/19 "2008-09-17T14:50:27Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I was thinking that the #3 QB can always spend more time going over offensive plays and defensive reads for each play, looking at film, etc., even if he’s not working out with the offense. There’s not a whole lot for a punter to study. Film study time is separate from practice time. And punters do have to practice things that aren’t punting - tackling, for one. Well, not tackling, exactly, more “doing their best to get in the way of the return man and hoping someone catches him from behind”. I can count the number of times I’ve seen a punter make more than a half-assed attempt at a tackle on one hand. Hunter Smith of Indy is the only one I’ve seen make two tackles- and he also happens to be one of the three or four fastest guys on the team, oddly enough. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-what-position-player-s-serve-as-kick-holders-these-days-and-why/463606/20 "2008-09-17T15:14:28Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I was thinking that the #3 QB can always spend more time going over offensive plays and defensive reads for each play, looking at film, etc., even if he’s not working out with the offense. There’s not a whole lot for a punter to study. > Of course, I don’t know if actual professional coaches see it that way. The number 3 QB isn’t a great choice because most are the emergency QB on game day. If they come in before the 4th quarter, the starting and back up QB can’t come back in the game.