# NH Republican/Tea Partier wants to stop youth vote **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961 "2011-03-08T19:56:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/81 "2011-03-11T17:50:03Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I’m pretty sure that the American left is just as opposed to national ID cards as anyone else. I sure am. Well, the opposition I usually hear is from the right side. > [@](#): > > I resent the idea that in the country that I am a citizen and resident of that I would be expected to carry proof of my right to be here. Fuck that. What does an ID card have to do with proof of residence right?? It proves your identity - that you are over 18/21; it proves your unique identity so as not to confuse you with all the other Joe Jacksons with same day of birth; and it can carry your primary residence. In other words, do you have a serious argument beyond “fuck that”? The only issue I recognize is the cost for issueing and regularly updating the card - because they have to be tamper-proof, they cost a good fee (plus the picture). But if your country were concerned about getting more people engaged in democracy, then these costs could be defrayed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/82 "2011-03-11T18:14:07Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Didn’t read the article, but there is a valid concern in some towns that a large number of voters are a constantly cycling transient population who have no particular interest in the ongoing management of the town, and often contribute little in terms of tax revenues. They or their parents pay tuition to the college and the college pays its local property taxes. Unless colleges are tax-exempt in NH? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/83 "2011-03-11T18:24:03Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > YOU’RE the one responsible for the great Doberman Cluster-fuck! As God is my witness, I really thought Dobermans could cluster. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/84 "2011-03-11T18:39:27Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I also believe that having an ID should be a requirement for every election On top of all the other problems with this idea that have already been pointed out, there’s a significant cost for the government to issue new IDs to everybody. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/85 "2011-03-11T19:40:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As God is my witness, I really thought Dobermans could cluster. Sure they can, they just don’t want to, it interferes with growling and glowering. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/86 "2011-03-11T20:00:49Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > …I’m pretty sure that the American left is just as opposed to national ID cards as anyone else. I sure am. I resent the idea that in the country that I am a citizen and resident of that I would be expected to carry proof of my right to be here. Fuck that… Just speaking from the conservative wing of the extreme left…maybe not so bad an idea. If very, very carefully watched! First off, not mandatory, but convenient. There is no sanction and no presumption about not having one. And they must be freely available at no cost, with every effort to make them accessible. Photo ID. Magnetic strip with access to data, medical records, allergies, donor status, blood type, etc. SS# Accepted as _prima facie_ evidence of citizenship, for all applications and circumstances. Employers may accept such ID as proof of legality for work with every confidence, and are exempt from any penalty so long as they accept it in good faith. If a citizen is asked for ID by any law enforcement type whatsoever, and supplies, it must be presumed that said person is a legal resident/citizen and, absent any specific warrants for that person, said law enforcement type must doff his/her hat and wish the citizen God speed. The ID is valid proof of legal residence and/or citizenship in the USA, period. Showing the card is sufficient registration to vote in any USA jurisdiction on a “same day” basis. The key is to make them useful, convenient, but not mandatory. You don’t want to carry yours, you can feed it into a woodchipper. Change your mind, get a duplicate at the post office. History has taught us of the left to be suspicious. As well it might. But useful is useful. And this has possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/87 "2011-03-11T22:24:36Z")
FWIW, I had procrastinated in renewing my Driver’s License when I was in school. So I headed to the local DMV and they refused to let me renew with my “home” address. I had to use my school address. Their justification was that that is where the police would look for me should they need to “contact” me. So for the purpose of the WA DMV at least, college **was** my legal place of residence. As for voting, my mother always forwarded my ballot to me so I never got an official answer there. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/88 "2011-03-11T23:01:18Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > But those weren’t proper voter lists - just last name, first name and Date of birth! Seriously, is that all proof you need to vote? Neither SSN nor any other unique identifier? > > So another proof that the right-wing paranoia against proper ID works against normal people. Do it right or don’t do it, but half-assed measures don’t do any good. You are very confused. In the U.S., it is generally the right wing who are in favor of national ID, and the left wing who are opposed. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/89 "2011-03-11T23:37:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Please stop trotting out this idiotic idea. Most students don’t have any vested interest in the town because they’re only there to be a customer of a business that happens to be operating out of that town. By that standard, most \*people \*don’t have any vested interest in the town where they live. Most people live where they live because it’s convenient to school, or to work. Should renters be allowed to vote? Should homeowners have to sign a “I promise to stay here for XX years” agreement before they can vote? It’s not as though anyone can’t up and leave at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/90 "2011-03-12T00:01:57Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Poor people. Especially poor people without jobs, who don’t drive, have disabilities and/or don’t have bank accounts. That’s a lot of people. There are communities where the majority of adults do not have a _current, **valid** _ ID. They may have had one at one time, but the cost of renewal and/or inaccessibility of renewal sites present a barrier to keeping them. Unless or until the cards for Medicaid, Medicare, TANF and SNAP start being issued with photographs and become legally accepted as a government-issued ID, you’re going to run into a lot of people who don’t have something that would be acceptable for voting. > > If states are going to mandate that non-drivers must have the state-issued non-driver ID in order to vote, unless those cards are free, _and the supporting documents required to get them_ (like birth certificates and marriage/divorce documentation of name changes) are also issued for free (which they aren’t, anywhere) then the requirement becomes tantamount to a poll tax. Even if the cost is only $10 or $15 for the new photo ID every four years, it’s still a requirement that people pay the state in order to exercise their right to vote. Sorry. This “the poor won’t vote” argument is something I cannot comprehend. Here in my nice, poor, third world country poor people in tiny villages at 15000ft a.s.l. get national ID for free The governemnt officials go to prisons, hospitals and even the shut-ins’ houses. I cannot believe that the richest country in the world is incapable of doing it. I think it’s a matter of infatilising and patronising poor people. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/91 "2011-03-12T00:23:55Z")
So do you not understand the argument in the context of IDs not being free here, or are you arguing that they should be free here? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/92 "2011-03-12T06:48:12Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Sorry. This “the poor won’t vote” argument is something I cannot comprehend. Here in my nice, poor, third world country poor people in tiny villages at 15000ft a.s.l. get national ID for free The governemnt officials go to prisons, hospitals and even the shut-ins’ houses. I cannot believe that the richest country in the world is incapable of doing it. I think it’s a matter of infatilising and patronising poor people. No one is infantilizing or patronizing anyone. Just the opposite, actually. We presume and demand more of our poor, especially the rural poor, than they’re capable of doing, where this is concerned. The richest country in the world _ **is** _ capable of doing it, there are _ **no** _ legitimate reasons why we couldn’t do it. But we _ **don’t** _. We have made no effort to do so, even in places where photo ID is already required (at least nominally) to vote. We simply don’t care enough about ensuring full enfranchisement in this country. We don’t care if people don’t vote, we don’t care if people _can’t_ vote. The simple fact of the matter is that the people who make the rules about who can and can’t vote and the circumstances surrounding voting have _already won_ elections. They know full well that expanding enfranchisement means that they’ll have to work all the harder & spend more money to keep their jobs, so they just aren’t going to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/93 "2011-03-12T15:22:03Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > No one is infantilizing or patronizing anyone. Just the opposite, actually. We presume and demand more of our poor, especially the rural poor, than they’re capable of doing, where this is concerned. > > The richest country in the world _ **is** _ capable of doing it, there are _ **no** _ legitimate reasons why we couldn’t do it. > > But we _ **don’t** _. We have made no effort to do so, even in places where photo ID is already required (at least nominally) to vote. We simply don’t care enough about ensuring full enfranchisement in this country. We don’t care if people don’t vote, we don’t care if people _can’t_ vote. > > The simple fact of the matter is that the people who make the rules about who can and can’t vote and the circumstances surrounding voting have _already won_ elections. They know full well that expanding enfranchisement means that they’ll have to work all the harder & spend more money to keep their jobs, so they just aren’t going to do it. I fully agree with you, then. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/94 "2011-03-12T15:54:45Z")
And it’s hard tomignore the facts that it’s Republicans who are pursuing such measures and I’ll of people who would be negatively impacted are perceived to lean heavily Democratic. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/95 "2011-03-12T17:44:35Z")
Having a large population that lives in the community but can’t vote in that community is very likely to lead to problems, like every other time it has happened in history. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961/96 "2011-03-13T19:06:46Z")
> [@Backcountry\_Medic](#): > > Lets just make it easy and say no one over 55 gets to cast a ballot either. I would actually favor this! Young people obviously have more motive to protect the future than oldsters do. Discussing financial crises with oldsters, I’ve seen them focus on the short-term effect on their portfolio, rather than long-term economic health. (I am over 55.) (In the past I’ve also proposed that only female legislators be allowed to vote on abortion-related laws.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nh-republican-tea-partier-wants-to-stop-youth-vote/573961.md?page=4)