# NHL Hockey Is Back **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 7, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309 "2013-01-07T02:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/1 "2013-01-07T02:51:02Z")
I know this is old news at this point and there aren’t a ton of hockey threads around these parts, but I figured a thread was in order. First, yay! Looking forward to 'Hawks games starting back up. Let’s look at the deal that was struck. I’m sure we won’t dissect this like we did the NFL deal but I think it’s interesting anyways. Here’s an [ESPN post](http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/21176/breaking-down-the-nhls-new-cba) about the specifics. These seem like the most interesting changes. [ul] [li]Ten-year term with an opt-out at eight years. [/li][li]Year 2 salary cap at $64.3 million, with the floor at $44 million. [/li][li]Seven-year term limit for NHL player contracts (eight years if player is re-signing with his own team). [/li][li]Salary variance: No more than 35 percent year-over-year and no year less than 50 percent of the highest year.[/li][li]Draft lottery system changes in order to allow all 14 teams that missed the playoffs a crack at the No. 1 overall pick. [/li][/ul] So, there’ll be labor peace for a decade. That’s big considering how things have gone for hockey lately. Last year’s cap was at $64.3M, this years will be a prorated $70.2M and next years will be at $64.3M again. After that the sap will be based of a 50-50 split of revenues, down from a 57-43 split favoring the players. Surely there’s a lot of nuance to that calculation though. The agents won’t be able to screw around with contracts as much any more, lengths are capped at 7/8 years and the annual salaries can’t fluctuate more than 35% per year with a max variation of 50% to avoid creative cap manipulation. And last by not least, we have a new NBA-style draft lottery. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/2 "2013-01-07T02:54:35Z")
BFT! Are they really going to try to salvage this season? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/3 "2013-01-07T03:15:52Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > BFT! > > Are they really going to try to salvage this season? Yup, early guesses are expecting a 48 game season or thereabouts. Probably will start in 2 weeks or so. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Girlfriend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.girlfriend/32/193_2.png) [@Dr.Girlfriend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Girlfriend)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/4 "2013-01-07T19:06:07Z")
Yay! Now that the Colts are out I really don’t care about football anymore, and I hate basketball, so it’ll be nice to have hockey on TV again. Go Blackhawks! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/5 "2013-01-07T19:13:53Z")
It’s going to be interesting. With only 48 games there won’t be much opportunity for any team to take a night off, I mean not give 100%. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/6 "2013-01-07T19:21:29Z")
Glad that the US didn’t ruin Canada’s game this year. Hopefully a few teams will move back to Canada in the next 8 years, increasing their influence in the negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/7 "2013-01-07T19:23:04Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Glad that the US didn’t ruin Canada’s game this year. Hopefully a few teams will move back to Canada in the next 8 years, increasing their influence in the negotiations. How was the US ruining Canada’s game exactly? Care to elaborate on that? ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/8 "2013-01-07T19:42:55Z")
I have very mixed feelings about this. On one hand I am happy to see that things have been worked out, on the other hand the greed of billionaires fighting millionaires makes me :dubious: What really sucks besides the little guys (arena and nearby restaurant/bar workers) that got hammered financially, is the impact this will have on the sport long term. It took years for them to recover from the last lockout, and they were building up some respectability again and attracting a lot of new fans. And now they’ve taken a gigantic step backwards with the public. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/9 "2013-01-07T19:56:01Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > How was the US ruining Canada’s game exactly? Care to elaborate on that? Bettman and the owners were lured by the possibility of a huge TV contract to move teams to US markets that didn’t have any hockey fans. When that contract didn’t materialize, they should have made it a priority to move teams back to Canada where their attendance and local TV numbers would have been much better. I’m drawing a lot from this paper about how many teams Canada could support: > **[Freight Forwarders - Mowatcentre.ca](https://mowatcentre.ca)** > > Ship smarter with our global freight forwarding services. We ensure timely deliveries with competitive pricing and expert logistics management. Now, establishing the causal link between this and the work stoppages is a little beyond my knowledge. My general feeling is that the NHL leadership needed a harsh slap in the face that their sport was not going to make NFL or even NBA-type money. From this it would follow that a sport with lower financial stakes would be less likely to miss an entire season. Also, having more teams in positive financial situations would lessen the need for revenue sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/10 "2013-01-07T20:02:14Z")
Revenue of NHL teams, in millions of dollars: 1 Toronto Maple Leafs 200 2 New York Rangers 199 74.0 3 Montreal Canadiens 169 51.6 4 Chicago Blackhawks 125 20.5 5 Boston Bruins 129 14.2 6 Detroit Red Wings 346 3 0 128 20.8 7 Vancouver Canucks 342 14 29 143 30.4 8 Philadelphia Flyers 336 16 19 124 10.9 9 Pittsburgh Penguins 288 9 35 120 9.1 10 Los Angeles Kings 276 19 51 120 1.8 11 Washington Capitals 250 11 52 106 -1.0 12 Calgary Flames 245 11 13 117 11.0 13 Dallas Stars 240 4 62 100 3.0 14 Edmonton Oilers 225 6 44 106 16.2 15 San Jose Sharks 223 6 0 101 -0.9 16 Ottawa Senators 220 9 59 113 14.5 17 Minnesota Wild 218 2 52 99 -3.9 18 Colorado Avalanche 210 6 11 91 4.5 19 New Jersey Devils 205 13 112 122 2.8 20 Winnipeg Jets 200 22 65 105 13.3 21 Anaheim Ducks 192 4 34 91 -10.8 22 Buffalo Sabres 175 1 46 95 -10.4 23 Tampa Bay Lightning 174 0 26 88 -13.1 24 Florida Panthers 170 5 59 87 -12.0 25 Nashville Predators 167 2 51 88 -3.4 26 Carolina Hurricanes 162 -4 68 85 -9.4 27 New York Islanders 155 4 65 66 -16.0 28 Columbus Blue Jackets 145 -5 69 85 -18.7 29 Phoenix Coyotes 134 0 26 83 -20.6 30 St Louis Blues 130 -17 46 89 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/11 "2013-01-07T20:26:10Z")
That somehow got posted before I knew it. Here let me try that again. Sorry. Revenue of [NHL teams](http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/), in millions of dollars: > [@](#): > > 1 Toronto Maple Leafs 200 > 2 New York Rangers 199 > 3 Montreal Canadiens 169 > 4 Vancouver Canucks 143 > 5 Boston Bruins 129 > 6 Detroit Red Wings 128 > 7 Chicago Blackhawks 125 > 8 Philadelphia Flyers 124 > 9 Pittsburgh Penguins 120 > 10 Los Angeles Kings 120 > 11 New Jersey Devils 122 > 12 Calgary Flames 117 > 13 Ottawa Senators 113 > 14 Washington Capitals 106 > 15 Edmonton Oilers 106 > 16 Winnipeg Jets 105 > 17 San Jose Sharks 101 > 18 Dallas Stars 100 > 19 Minnesota Wild 99 > 20 Buffalo Sabres 95 > 21 Colorado Avalanche 91 > 22 Anaheim Ducks 91 > 23 St Louis Blues 89 > 24 Tampa Bay Lightning 88 > 25 Nashville Predators 88 > 26 Florida Panthers 87 > 27 Columbus Blue Jackets 85 > 28 Carolina Hurricanes 85 > 29 Phoenix Coyotes 83 > 30 New York Islanders 66 My point being that there appear to be a lot of viable teams in the US and with revenue sharing there’s no reason why this can’t work in the long run. Can a mod delete post #10 perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/12 "2013-01-07T20:27:33Z")
Thanks for that list, interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/13 "2013-01-07T21:23:57Z")
I saw something in the last few days, I don’t remember where, throwing around the dreaded ‘E’ word. I will probably be done with hockey if the league expands again. For the sake of the game I think the league needs to contract a handful of teams and let others move to better markets. That won’t happen and I fear a greater dilution of the game is 5-7 years down the road. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/14 "2013-01-07T22:06:57Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > My point being that there appear to be a lot of viable teams in the US and with revenue sharing there’s no reason why this can’t work in the long run. That same link shows 13 teams (all in the states) with negative operating income (I’m not sure if this is before or after revenue sharing). I’m pretty sure that it’d be better for the teams, and the league as a whole, if some of the worst (financially) performing teams were moved up to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/15 "2013-01-08T00:52:27Z")
Man a team in metropolitan New York is last on that list?!? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/16 "2013-01-08T01:11:51Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Man a team in metropolitan New York is last on that list?!? Old, small, shitty arena. Moving to new one in two years after lease expires. > [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > That same link shows 13 teams (all in the states) with negative operating income (I’m not sure if this is before or after revenue sharing). I’m pretty sure that it’d be better for the teams, and the league as a whole, if some of the worst (financially) performing teams were moved up to Canada. That would be before revenue sharing, which is why we need revenue sharing! > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I saw something in the last few days, I don’t remember where, throwing around the dreaded ‘E’ word. I seriously doubt there will be expansion, but I seriously believe that a few teams will be moved north to the likes of Quebec City and another team in the Greater Toronto Area. Both markets would be very, very viable. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/17 "2013-01-08T03:02:16Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I saw something in the last few days, I don’t remember where, throwing around the dreaded ‘E’ word. > > I will probably be done with hockey if the league expands again. For the sake of the game I think the league needs to contract a handful of teams and let others move to better markets. That won’t happen and I fear a greater dilution of the game is 5-7 years down the road. The game isn’t diluted now, though. The quality of play is visibly better than it used to be; watching a classic game from, say, 1978, it’s obvious the players would not have been up to snuff today. It’s not hard to guess why - the expansion of the search of talent into places aside from Canada, far more talent coming out of the USA, better training, better nutrition. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/18 "2013-01-08T03:18:22Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That would be before revenue sharing, which is why we need revenue sharing! But what’s the point of revenue sharing? What are you trying to accomplish? If your revenue sharing is for the purpose of reducing each fracnhise’s exposure to short term risk, especially as associated with the usual flucuations in a team’s fortunes, well, that makes sense. But what appears to be happening is that some teams are permanent money losers. There is no reason to believe the Florida Panthers are ever going to do anything BUT absorb revenue sharing money, which raises the question as to why you are using a revenue sharing arrangement to support a team in Sunrise, FL at all. It makes sense to use revenue sharing to help bad times in Chicago or Edmonton, but it makes no sense at all to use it to maintain a money pit in Fort Lauderdale. What would make more sense is to INCREASE REVENUE by moving the team to Toronto or Quebec City, or Hamilton. Or London. Or Markham. Or Mississauga. The entire reason for taking a flyer on Florida was to get a huge US TV contract, on the assumption that you had to cover US markets to get that. Frankly, though, it’s hard to believe southern Florida is the breaking point, or Phoenix, or a small market like Raleigh-Durham. You already don’t have Atlanta or Houston. Why is Raleigh important? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/19 "2013-01-08T03:19:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That somehow got posted before I knew it. Here let me try that again. Sorry. That was funny, though. I was thinking New York’s numbers just had more precision, but then going down the list, there were more and more numbers, and then some were negative… Finance is hard. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309/20 "2013-01-08T03:35:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But what’s the point of revenue sharing? What are you trying to accomplish? > > If your revenue sharing is for the purpose of reducing each fracnhise’s exposure to short term risk, especially as associated with the usual flucuations in a team’s fortunes, well, that makes sense. > > But what appears to be happening is that some teams are permanent money losers. There is no reason to believe the Florida Panthers are ever going to do anything BUT absorb revenue sharing money, which raises the question as to why you are using a revenue sharing arrangement to support a team in Sunrise, FL at all. It makes sense to use revenue sharing to help bad times in Chicago or Edmonton, but it makes no sense at all to use it to maintain a money pit in Fort Lauderdale. What would make more sense is to INCREASE REVENUE by moving the team to Toronto or Quebec City, or Hamilton. Or London. Or Markham. Or Mississauga. > > The entire reason for taking a flyer on Florida was to get a huge US TV contract, on the assumption that you had to cover US markets to get that. Frankly, though, it’s hard to believe southern Florida is the breaking point, or Phoenix, or a small market like Raleigh-Durham. You already don’t have Atlanta or Houston. Why is Raleigh important? No arguments here, which is why I also stated that moving some teams to Quebec or the GTA would make more sense. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-hockey-is-back/646309.md?page=2)