# NHL: January 2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 2, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131 "2012-01-02T11:27:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/81 "2012-01-18T00:04:15Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > I still maintain that Subban gets worse stuff hurled at him than douchebags like Marchand…whatever Subban is in the locker room and on the ice in terms of chatter, at least with him it STAYS in the locker room or on the ice. He doesn’t go out to newspapers and radio and insult or trashtalk players on other teams, yet Subban is hated while assholes like Marchand and Lucic get a free ride. This summer, Subban’s raising money for Haiti, Lucic is gloating to the cops about winning the Cup after abusing his girlfriend. Who is the classier guy? Who gets more media/fan hate thrown at him? > > But…yeah… it seems pretty clear that something’s up in the locker room, and he does need to grow up. Subban’s what, 22? It’s not especially surprising for a 22-year-old to get into some shit with his teammates. The difference between keeping this in the lcoker room and parading it in public view is, to my mind, the biggest difference of all. If you have a problem with your co-workers, you keep it at work; you don’t go shitting on them in front of your customers. I thnk my favourite part of last season was Brad Marchand criticizing Subban for being too mouthy, since rookies shouldn’t be mouthy. Brad MArchand. A rookie. Talking about it in the press. The hypocrisy was not commented on by the media. What could the difference be that Subban gets so much extra shit? Hmm. I wonder. Think, think. ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_Garvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c67d28/32.png) [@Fred\_Garvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_Garvin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/82 "2012-01-18T01:17:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What could the difference be that Subban gets so much extra shit? Hmm. I wonder. Think, think. Let’s see…Marchand will stand right in front of you,no matter what the size difference, as opposed to Subban who was turtling big time the last time he was in Boston. Also, unlike Subban, Marchand’s not known to spit at people, I wonder if that could be it, Think, think. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/83 "2012-01-18T01:30:21Z")
> [@Fred\_Garvin](#): > > Let’s see…Marchand will stand right in front of you,no matter what the size difference, as opposed to Subban who was turtling big time the last time he was in Boston. > > Also, unlike Subban, Marchand’s not known to spit at people, I wonder if that could be it, Think, think. Subban did not spit at Del Zotto. Del Zotto didn’t see it, Subban denies it, and if you actually look at the video and use a modicum of common sense, you’d realize that it just didn’t happen. Subban spit, and he looked up at a player passing by _who was several feet away_. Evidence? Subban is in focus. A split second later, a referee, also in focus, skates by. That pretty much happens at least 2-3 feet away from Subban, just because it’s pretty clear the official isn’t running into Subban’s feet, dangling from the boards. Del Zotto skates by, _out of focus_, while Subban is still in focus. The way cameras work, that means that Del Zotto was even closer to the camera than the referee was. Subban did not spit at Del Zotto any more than he was spitting at you, as you watched the TV. Players spit all over the damn bench all the damn time: this was a non-story made up by TSN supported by no real facts whatsoever. TSN also called Krys Barch’s racial slur “the Subban Controversy”. Subban did nothing in that whole story. But whatever, not like you need facts. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/84 "2012-01-18T04:17:50Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > TSN also called Krys Barch’s racial slur “the Subban Controversy”. Subban did nothing in that whole story. I noted the name used by TSN but honestly it hasn’t occurred to me how bizarre it is they’re blaming it on Subban. Come on, it’s because he’s black. There’s no point denying it; black athletes are treated differently from white. Marchand and Subban are both second year players, both talented. Marchand is a dirty player known for cheap shots and being mouthy, and the old white guys praise his “Truculence” and being a “Gamer” and all that shit. Subban’s mouthy, albeit not as much of a cheap shot artist, and he gets ripped for being arrogant and a bad kid. Have them swap skin colors and the commentary would swap, too. It’s not just hockey, it’s most sports; the black athlete who works hard and succeeds is praised for his “athleticism” while the white athlete who works hard and succeeds is praised for his intelligence and work ethic. If a white guy plays hard he’s a gamer; if a black guy plays hard he’s dirty. If a white player trash talks people say nothing; when Subban trash talks people talk about how he’s more like a basketball player. (Yes, it’s been said.) Or that he should play “The white way.” ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/85 "2012-01-18T22:02:13Z")
Pretty much. I don’t think that everyone that dislikes Subban is racist, but I think that a lot of the initial “hate” came out of racist people or ideas and got repeated by influential people (looking at you, Grapes). People bought into the idea that he’s a punk who needs to “earn respect” according to Mike Richards, not because he was behaving like a punk but because people kept saying he was behaving like a punk. So now, whenever he does anything at all, he’s criticized and booed and yelled at and the media and non-Habs fans hop on that and make every little thing look worse than it objectively is. It’s like some people take a perverse pleasure in trying to take him down… while other more obnoxious, more diving, more cheap shot, more assholish players of the same age or older/with more experience get a free pass. Yeah, he’s a dumbass lately. But no more or less than many other players that no one ever feels the need to rip to shreds. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/86 "2012-01-19T03:52:14Z")
Well Detroit , Chicago , and St. Louis are playing an interesting game of leap frog around the Western conference. 1st one day, then 4th, the 5th, then back to first. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/87 "2012-01-19T17:39:49Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Well Detroit , Chicago , and St. Louis are playing an interesting game of leap frog around the Western conference. 1st one day, then 4th, the 5th, then back to first. 😉 Similare things in the east but down at the cut line. Due to staggered start times, the Caps started Sunday morning in 8th, dropped to 9th then jumped to 3rd by the end of the day. A OTL loss for a point for Florida a day or so later and they were back down to 8th. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/88 "2012-01-19T17:57:35Z")
And the Habs are battling with a couple of other teams for the coveted 12th spot… Left the restaurant after last night’s ‘game’ and took the metro home - it was mostly people from the Bell Centre and _man_ was that train ever full of depressed people. This town is in mourning; if hockey is a religion here, there’s a crisis of faith going on. I think this team isn’t as bad as their record, but they aren’t great either. Full of underperforming veterans or overtaxed/in over their heads rookies/young players. If anyone is keeping stats on the number of goalposts that have been hit, I have a feeling the Habs are in the top of that column! The Bourque breakaway _ping_ last night was heart-rending. [del]The goalies[/del]Price pretty much have to post a shut-out every game to even have a chance at winning because the team can’t score, though history shows that this group has talent and should be better than they are right now. The PP in particular is abysmal, and I think is the difference in a lot of games. I’m seeing a gradual change in style between Cunneyworth and Martin - and I like what I see - but they can’t seem to put it together for 2 games in a row. _sigh_ With our luck this year, even if we end up in the draft lottery, we’ll come in last on that too! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/89 "2012-01-19T21:40:13Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Pretty much. > > I don’t think that everyone that dislikes Subban is racist, but I think that a lot of the initial “hate” came out of racist people or ideas and got repeated by influential people (looking at you, Grapes) I’m not suggesting that the racism towards Subban necessarily has to be pumped out by overt redneck Nee-gro-hatin’ racists. Racism in the field of pro sports is often very subtle, and to some extent is purely based on preconceptions that people have about white and black athletes, preconceptions that the media repeats over and over. When Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were rivals in the NBA, the standard media story about them - and indeed, the way most fans think about them now - is that Bird was famous for his work ethic and his intelligence, and Johnson was regarded as “athletic.” This was not actually consistent with any rational examination of the facts; Bird was very athletic, and Johnson was a smart basketball player and one of the hardest working men in pro sports. But he was black so it had to be athleticism. In the 1980s and 1990s the Detroit Tigers had the longest-running double player combination in baseball history, Alam Trammell (white) and Lou Whitaker (black). They came up together and played together for well over a decade. The two players were of virtually the same level of ability, were both key figures on Detroit’s 1984 World Series win, and were amazingly similar players. Yet the story was always the same; Trammell was a bright, hard working guy, and Whitaker was just coasting on ability, even though if you just opened your eyes you could SEE Trammell was at least as naturally gifted an athlete, and maybe even more so. I’ve heard all kinds of white ballplayers being praised as smart, as guys who learned their way through the game; you almost never heard it of black ballpayers even though it’s trivially easy to name a raft of black ballplayers who didn’t appear to be super athletes but demostrated exceptional mastery of the finer points of the game. Willie Mays jumps to mind, or Henry Aaron. Joe Morgan. They were fine athletes but hardly unusual specimens by the standards of pro sports, and yet when they dominated their sports people rarely talked about their brains. I’ve heard people praise the brains and dedication of Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Pete Rose and lots of other white guys. Why not Willie Mays? Joe Morgan? Willie McCovey? I could come up with more examples across all kinds of sports; heck, the disgraceful attitude towards black quarterbacks just 20-30 years ago could fill a book. The notion of the young black man as loud and arrogant, and that this is undesirable, is just another aspect of the stereotyping of black athletes. If a young guy like Brad Marchand is yappy, well, it’s considered okay. P.K. Subban is expected to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/90 "2012-01-20T05:46:26Z")
Well, I don’t like the guy, but it’s not because he’s arrogant. At least, I don’t really think he’s all that arrogant. The only thing I really remember him saying that would come close is when he said something like, “_when_ we win the Cup”. And he pretty much got pwn3d there, (and if you’re superstitious, jinxed himself). No, I don’t like him because I think he’s a cheapshot artist and he likes to slewfoot other players. (The Jordan Staal incident probably biases me). But he’s really not that high on my list of Players I Can’t Stand. And as far as arrogance, no one can touch Alexander Ovechkin or Jaromir Jagr. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/91 "2012-01-20T06:26:12Z")
Subban didn’t slewfoot Jordan Staal. He [cut Staal’s foot as he pivoted on one leg while tracking the puck that had just gone by (that I think he’d just deflected)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zMj70ISxVE). About as clear an accident as you can get, and just terribly bad luck for Staal. I’m acknowledging that you say he’s not even someone high on your list of players that you don’t like, but implying that Subban did anything cheap in that incident isn’t fair to Subban. It just lends support to the idea that it doesn’t matter what he does, he’s going to get hate for it. ETA: and sure, he didn’t win the Cup, but he got a hell of a lot closer that year than your team did 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/92 "2012-01-20T07:14:59Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > ETA: and sure, he didn’t win the Cup, but he got a hell of a lot closer that year than your team did 😉 Touche. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/93 "2012-01-20T18:48:58Z")
In the October NHL thread I speculated that the Senators might not get 60 points this year. They hit 60 last night, with 33 games remaining, making that one of the worst sports predictions in the history of this message board. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/94 "2012-01-20T19:42:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the October NHL thread I speculated that the Senators might not get 60 points this year. > > They hit 60 last night, with 33 games remaining, making that one of the worst sports predictions in the history of this message board. Oh oh. Now look what you went and did to their chances. 😉 And I know how very upset you must be with your terrible predication at this point. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/95 "2012-01-20T19:55:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the October NHL thread I speculated that the Senators might not get 60 points this year. > > They hit 60 last night, with 33 games remaining, making that one of the worst sports predictions in the history of this message board. Can you do me a favour and predict that the Habs will finish last? They need your skills… Who knew the Drive for 25 meant 25 _wins_? :p:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/96 "2012-01-21T20:42:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The notion of the young black man as loud and arrogant, and that this is undesirable, is just another aspect of the stereotyping of black athletes. If a young guy like Brad Marchand is yappy, well, it’s considered okay. P.K. Subban is expected to shut up. As a personal, anecdotal counter of one, I’d like Marchand to shut the hell up and would enjoy rearranging his face, while I don’t have any problems with Subban. And I **hate** the Canadiens, so this is no homerism here. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/97 "2012-01-21T21:07:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the October NHL thread I speculated that the Senators might not get 60 points this year. > > They hit 60 last night, with 33 games remaining, making that one of the worst sports predictions in the history of this message board. Next year, can you predict something horrible for the Oilers? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/98 "2012-01-22T01:05:49Z")
Just want to link to [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npn0dyhSyr0), in case you haven’t seen it. NSFBruins fans. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/99 "2012-01-22T01:06:42Z")
And the Rangers beat the Bruins in OT to stay on top the league standings, although it could be an expensive victory if Ryan McDonagh is out for any length of time after getting plowed from behind by Ference, who got a charging major, game misconduct, and a likely suspension on the play. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131/100 "2012-01-22T04:14:27Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Just want to link to [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npn0dyhSyr0), in case you haven’t seen it. NSFBruins fans. Wow, someone put some work into that one. Very amusing! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-january-2012/608131.md?page=6)