# NHL: The Playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187 "2012-04-08T17:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/221 "2012-04-22T17:34:35Z")
According to the TSN announcer, Evgeni Malkin lead the league in goals this year, with 50. You’d think they’d have assistants to help them with that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/222 "2012-04-22T17:38:24Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Yes, because Shanny is apparently the authority on this? :rolleyes: > > Neil is looking straight at Boyle, he can see that Boyle’s head is down as a combination of being driven a little by [other Sens player whose name I haven’t noticed] and the fact that he just shot the puck. As such, it’s pretty damn clear to anyone with half a brain that laying a full-out hit right then would result in hitting the head and likely injuries. At the last second, instead of just delivering a shoulder that would unbalance Boyle, Neil turns to go with a full body hit. This “principal point of contact” concept is bullshit in situations where the head and body are hit simultaneously - the force to the head is pretty much the same. > > Neil could have - and should have - chosen to not make contact. Kind of like Pacioretty on Letang - that hit was also avoidable and the suspension was deserved (Malone on Campoli too, but Shanny is a moron). > > Neil could have - and should have - attempted to reduce the force of the hit when he saw the head was down, rather than increase it… > > …It was reckless and irresponsible and Sens fans gloating over it is disgusting. Editing mine. I agree with nearly all of the above. This wasn’t a necessary hit. Could have been avoided and probably should have. > [@](#): > > Neil could have - and should have - been punished for this hit. Here we part ways. As much as I agree with everything else you said, it was still a clean hit. By the rules the NHL has thus far, there was no need for the player to be suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/223 "2012-04-22T18:15:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > According to the TSN announcer, Evgeni Malkin lead the league in goals this year, with 50. > > You’d think they’d have assistants to help them with that sort of thing. It’s a pretty good game for Ray Ferraro when half the things he says aren’t completely rock stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/224 "2012-04-22T18:22:11Z")
> [@drm](#): > > Fleury was a disaster in the first period. He is completely out of control. Doesn’t help that the d is on it’s heels, though, They give them half of their own zone every time down the ice. Insane. It would help if the rest of the team would score some goals as well. Oh well, – bye bye Stanley. ☹ And Malkin does lead the League in _points_. At least, he did during the regular season. Stamkos lead in goals, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/225 "2012-04-22T18:32:32Z")
10 MINUTES TO GO! WHOOOO! FLYERS! With Illya Bryzgalov’s twin-brother, I’m guessing. You know, the one that can actually stop shots. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/226 "2012-04-22T19:16:15Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Editing mine. I agree with nearly all of the above. This wasn’t a necessary hit. Could have been avoided and probably should have. > Here we part ways. As much as I agree with everything else you said, it was still a clean hit. By the rules the NHL has thus far, there was no need for the player to be suspended. But once you agree that it was avoidable, irresponsible and reckless, shouldn’t it be punished? Shouldn’t it be unacceptable? Maybe this is where the fines should be - a slap on the wrist, saying “you cut it too close, watch out.” Then suspend the hell out of anything more serious? (Though obviously I think it should be a suspendable hit, and I’d rather see the NHL’s rules change, but I take your point that this is how things have been decided so far). So…in short…the NHL sucks. Right? Damn, Pens deserved to lose that game. They were awful. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/227 "2012-04-22T19:38:13Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > But once you agree that it was avoidable, irresponsible and reckless, shouldn’t it be punished? Shouldn’t it be unacceptable? In that case, you need to change the rules. You can’t suspend a player for making a legal hit, not matter how avoidable or irresponsible it is. You can’t fine him, either - somebody who did not break the rules can’t be punished. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/228 "2012-04-22T19:40:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > A link to a good video would help; I can only find one that shows only one angle in real time. [Here’s a good one](http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=629019) from [NHL.com](http://NHL.com). He clearly leaped in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/229 "2012-04-22T19:42:55Z")
> [@@CraigAnderson41](#): > > [http://img.ly/hffj](http://img.ly/hffj) Seriously? Glad to be on the front page, but is a hair loss ad necessary!? #sensnation #sens #believeit 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/230 "2012-04-22T20:07:32Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > In that case, you need to change the rules. You can’t suspend a player for making a legal hit, not matter how avoidable or irresponsible it is. You can’t fine him, either - somebody who did not break the rules can’t be punished. But… what’s unsportsmanlike conduct then? All this talk about needing to respect players on the ice… isn’t there a point where disrespectful behaviour crosses the line from “legal” to “in-game punishment” to 'supplementary discipline"? Do we accept players concussing others in that manner, because “technically” it’s legal, even though it was avoidable and irresponsible? I feel that Neil’s hit crossed that line - it’s a sign of disrespect, of unsportsmanlike behaviour and it’s dangerous. These playoffs kind of have me feeling the same way as after the Chara hit on Pacioretty - at what point is it acceptable for fans and the league to sacrifice player’s health for money and entertainment. It’s fair to say that no one is making players play, but the skilled guys want to…which means they put themselves at risk of shit by the goons that isn’t really part of the game (IMHO). It’s all very frustrating. ETA: **Rysto** - I’m more bothered by the headline “[DANDY](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy)” than by the ad placement. Scraping the bottom of the clever-pun-headline barrel, I see! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/231 "2012-04-22T20:37:37Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > 10 MINUTES TO GO! WHOOOO! FLYERS! With Illya Bryzgalov’s twin-brother, I’m guessing. You know, the one that can actually stop shots. 😃 Flyers played a great, disciplined game today, and Bryz, while not spectacular, was solid. I was so happy with the entire game today. And Giroux outplayed Crosby and Malkin for the whole series, setting a new Flyers record for points in a series. That hit in the first 5 seconds, followed by a goal at 32 seconds–well, that was a pretty good first shift. 😃 Talk about setting the tone. Go Flyers! ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/232 "2012-04-22T20:42:15Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > But once you agree that it was avoidable, irresponsible and reckless, shouldn’t it be punished? Shouldn’t it be unacceptable? > > Maybe this is where the fines should be - a slap on the wrist, saying “you cut it too close, watch out.” Clearly not. Fines are only used against the most severe of offenses.😉 All kidding aside, I can see a $2500 fine for something like that. It’s legal, but borderline nasty. A fine for something like that would tell players to ease up a bit when they can. > [@](#): > > Then suspend the hell out of anything more serious? Sounds about right. The hit was clean, but it was getting close to the edge. If he’d come across a bit later, popped up a bit more, etc. > [@](#): > > (Though obviously I think it should be a suspendable hit, and I’d rather see the NHL’s rules change, but I take your point that this is how things have been decided so far). > > So…in short…the NHL sucks. Right? This year certainly. There seems to be a good deal more nastiness going on this year in the playoffs. Seems like people are genuinely trying to take players out of the playoffs entirely. Normally this behavior is confined to Chris Pronger. Now it’s all over the damn place and the penalties handed down are inconsistent at best and laughable at worst. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/233 "2012-04-22T20:46:24Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > [Here’s a good one](http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=629019) from [NHL.com](http://NHL.com). He clearly leaped in the air. This is a video of the Torres hit. We’re talking about the Chris Neil hit on Boyle. I know Torres jumped, that’s the whole point. [QUOTE=mnemnosyne] But… what’s unsportsmanlike conduct then? All this talk about needing to respect players on the ice… isn’t there a point where disrespectful behaviour crosses the line from “legal” to “in-game punishment” to 'supplementary discipline"? Do we accept players concussing others in that manner, because “technically” it’s legal, even though it was avoidable and irresponsible? I feel that Neil’s hit crossed that line - it’s a sign of disrespect, of unsportsmanlike behaviour and it’s dangerous. [/QUOTE] Unsportsmanlike Conduct (Rule 75) specifically forbids certain types of behaviour. “Hard hit” isn’t any of them. Here is the rule: [http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26486](http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26486) Never before in the history of the NHL, ever, has a hard but totally legal hit been called a penalty of “unsportsmanlike conduct.” So you’re proposing the NHL punish Neil, and by extension his team, by essentially inventing a new rule after the action was taken. Surely you can see why that would be an exceptionally bad thing for a sports league to do? Neil’s hit was, as near as we can tell, legal in every sense. It was extremely hard, and Boyle was hurt, but like it or not there isn’t any rule against hitting a guy really hard (if there was every player in the league would be suspended) or engaging in contact that happens to result in injury. If in your opinion Neil’s hit should be an illegal hit, then you’re proposing a rule change, which is fine, but that’s what it is. There’s a lot of blame to go around the NHL for the carnage this year, but they cannot be blamed for not punishing a guy for something _that didn’t break any rule._ IF you just want to get Chris Neil, then what you need is consistent application of the existing rules, since he does in fact pull dirty stunts that are against the rules all the time. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/234 "2012-04-22T21:03:04Z")
I didn’t realize the unsportsmanlike conduct rule was so specific… thanks for pointing that out **RickJay.** I think shit like Neil’s hit are _unsportsmanlike_ based on the English language, but perhaps not based on the rules of the game. 🙂 OK, so I want a rule change. I want lots of rule changes, and/or I want existing rules to actually be enforced and I want consistent, transparent officiating and supplementary discipline. And a pony. And a million dollars. And a shiny new car. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/235 "2012-04-22T21:32:12Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > All kidding aside, I can see a $2500 fine for something like that. It’s legal, but borderline nasty. A fine for something like that would tell players to ease up a bit when they can. You’d never get that past the players’ union. The league can fine players for things that are against the rules, but not for things that are “legal, but borderline nasty.” If you want to eliminate hits like that (and I think that’s a pretty good goal), you have to make them against the rules - you’ve got no chance otherwise. The NFL has been reasonably successful at reducing helmet-helmet hits on defenseless players, but it’s been a multi-year process with a clearly stated goal, and the escalating discipline has been consistent with the goal. I don’t remember the exact timeline, but went something like:[ul] [li]Year 1: Announce rule change, penalize players in game, no suppleental discipline[/li][li]Year 2: Penalize players in-game, fine and/or suspend repeat offenders.[/li][li]Penalize players in-game, fine first-time offenders, suspend repeat offenders.[/li][/ul]The league got a ration of shit from players, fans, and teams when they began fining players (see anything James Harrison has said in public over the last three years), but they didn’t let that change the way they were penalizing the fouls. By phasing it in and remaining (relatively) consistent on discipline, they’ve been pretty successful in reducing those hits. 10 years ago, any receiver going over the middle would have his bell rung; now it’s a rare thing to see. It’s possible to make the game safer, but not if the league is afraid of upsetting people. You’re trying to change a game that people love and that pisses them off. The league has to be willing to say, in effect, “suck it up - this is how it’s gonna be.” ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_Garvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c67d28/32.png) [@Fred\_Garvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_Garvin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/236 "2012-04-22T23:17:07Z")
[Neal hit on Boyle](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7pBVlgDHWw) Here’s a few different views on the hit. I see this as a clean hockey hit in the middle of the 3rd period in a 1-0 game. It’s unfortunate that Boyle got hurt, but that was a clean hit and punishing someone based on the result (“Shanabanned”), is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/237 "2012-04-23T00:53:33Z")
Well, that’s that. Congrats to the Flyers – you played a good game, and you deserved to win this one. Although pardon me if I don’t wish you guys luck in the next round. 😉 Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna go curl up in a little ball and cry. But seriously, we played hard this year, we worked through a lot of injuries, and we fought the good fight. There’s always next year, and if winning Stanley Cups were easy, they wouldn’t be worth it. LET’S GO PENS!!! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/238 "2012-04-23T03:45:00Z")
And the Canucks are out, the Kings advance. A lot of seemingly powerful teams are either out, or aren’t having as easy a time of it in the first round as was expected. Lord knows what the Canucks are going to do with Roberto Luongo and Cory Schneider. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/239 "2012-04-23T03:58:34Z")
> [@Fred\_Garvin](#): > > [Neal hit on Boyle](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7pBVlgDHWw) > > Here’s a few different views on the hit. I see this as a clean hockey hit in the middle of the 3rd period in a 1-0 game. It’s unfortunate that Boyle got hurt, but that was a clean hit and punishing someone based on the result (“Shanabanned”), is ludicrous. Agreed. At some point the owness is on the puckhandler to be aware of their surroundings. This comes from an Eric Lindros fan who at no point put any blame on Scott Stevens. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187/240 "2012-04-23T04:03:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Lord knows what the Canucks are going to do with Roberto Luongo and Cory Schneider. They will try to trade Luongo. He is still a quality number 1 goalie, his cap hit isn’t that bad (5.3 million) and the team will have paid 17 of the 65 million as the money is frontloaded, the problem lies with the no trade clause. Lord knows why teams always seem to add that to the contract… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nhl-the-playoffs/618187.md?page=13)