# Nice Going, Obama! (Brazil Chooses SAAB over Boeing) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780 "2013-12-20T00:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/41 "2013-12-20T15:48:33Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > 😃 > > I’m imagining a humongous box showing up containing millions of parts of an unassembled jet, a phonebook sized cartoon instruction book, and a single allen wrench. And you’ll have to go all the way back to Sweden to exchange one of the two left wings for the right one. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/42 "2013-12-20T15:51:24Z")
The Republicans are pushing very hard for a plane designed with two right wings. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/43 "2013-12-20T15:53:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > All kidding aside, where did you get the whacky idea that the Snowden revelations had anything at all to do with this plane deal? You don’t think **ralph124c** came up with that on his own, do you? It’s being suggested pretty widely in reporting about the contract. There’s just not much to confirm it. (The New York Times plays it safer and says “The announcement comes at a time of heightened tension between the United States and Brazil.”) [In the article a Brazilian minister is asked if the NSA scandal played a role, and he doesn’t say no. But an analyst said costs were probably more important.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/business/international/brazil-snubs-boeing-in-jet-deal.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/44 "2013-12-20T15:55:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You don’t think **ralph124c** came up with that on his own, do you?.. No, I just want to know who Ralph is parroting this week. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/45 "2013-12-20T16:02:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > No, I just want to know who Ralph is parroting this week. [More than a few people.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/18/brazil-jets-idUSL2N0JX17W20131218) > [@](#): > > Until earlier this year, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner. But revelations of spying by the U.S. National Security Agency in Brazil, including personal communication by Rousseff, led Brazil to believe it could not trust a U.S. company. > > “The NSA problem ruined it for the Americans,” a Brazilian government source said on condition of anonymity. > > A U.S. source close to the negotiations said that whatever intelligence the spying had delivered for the American government was unlikely to outweigh the commercial cost of the revelations. > > “Was that worth 4 billion dollars?” the source asked. > > The lament echo’s recent complaints by Cisco Systems Inc , which said in November that a backlash against U.S. government spying contributed to lower demand for its products in China. But I have a feeling this wasn’t a problem for **ralph124c** until Obama started doing it. > [@Americans. How do you feel about the prisoner issue now?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-do-you-feel-about-the-prisoner-issue-now/251780/5): > > The US is at war…undeclared perhaps, but at war all the same. If forcing Iraqui prisoners to wear women’s underpants results in worthwhile intelligence,so be it. Or how about Al-Queda sawing offpeople’s heads? I truly find it amazing that there is such concern for these unlucky prisoners…while nobody says anything about the murder of 3500 innocent people on 9/11. > When amnest international says something about Saddam’s death camps, perhaps I’ll listen. Otherwise, yack all you want…**every intelligence service in the world uses somewhat unsavory methods to elicit confessions and information…the German Police murdered the Baader-Meinhoff gang in their prison cells. The British MI-5 murdered IRA agents in Spain, and the French secret service has committed extrajudicial killings as well. > Those ofyou WITHOUT sin, cast the first stone! 😃** ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/46 "2013-12-20T16:09:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You don’t think **ralph124c** came up with that on his own, do you? It’s being suggested pretty widely in reporting about the contract. There’s just not much to confirm it. (The New York Times plays it safer and says “The announcement comes at a time of heightened tension between the United States and Brazil.”) [In the article a Brazilian minister is asked if the NSA scandal played a role, and he doesn’t say no. But an analyst said costs were probably more important.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/business/international/brazil-snubs-boeing-in-jet-deal.html?_r=0) The Brazilian government is extremely pissed off about the NSA spying scandal. There were reports a few months back that the NSA had hacked into [Petrobras](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/09/us-usa-security-snowden-petrobras-idUSBRE98817N20130909)’s computer networks. It was enough for the Brazilian president to call off a state visit in which they were going to discuss among other things a $ 4 billion dollar jet fighter deal. I think that the NSA spying played a part in the deal not going through, but some of this is also local politics. She is facing reelection next year, and the polls hadn’t been in her favor. Her cancellation of the state visit and strong response to the spying revelations played a part in her polls getting a needed bump. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/47 "2013-12-20T16:11:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > IKEA. I have a ton of IKEA stuff - for the price point - its awesome. Some things are awesome even without the price point. Their down comforter that I have on the kids beds is every bit as good as the one I bought for four times the cost. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/48 "2013-12-20T16:35:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [More than a few people.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/18/brazil-jets-idUSL2N0JX17W20131218) > > But I have a feeling this wasn’t a problem for **ralph124c** until Obama started doing it. Exactly HOW does this relate to Obama’s duplicity killing a Brazilian fighter deal?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/49 "2013-12-20T16:54:06Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Exactly HOW does this relate to Obama’s duplicity killing a Brazilian fighter deal?😕 You cheered for intelligence services torturing and murdering people, innocent or guilty. But you don’t like spying (unless it costs Boeing money, I guess). How does that work? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/50 "2013-12-20T16:54:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But I have a feeling this wasn’t a problem for **ralph124c** until Obama started doing it. The difference is that if some other country had reacted to something during the Bush administration, ralph would have instinctively said that the other country was wrong. Now that a country is reacting to the Obama administration (if that is the case) ralph puts the blame on the President. If you argue with a Republican President, you’re wrong and if you argue with a Democratic President, you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/51 "2013-12-20T17:01:51Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > All kidding aside, why is it so funny when Obama manages to convert an American ally into an unfriendly neighbor. Indeed, a Republican President would \*never \*alienate America’s allpfffff sorry I couldn’t keep a straight face. Were you in a coma over the last 15 years, by any chance ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/52 "2013-12-20T17:04:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > All kidding aside, why is it so funny when Obama manages to convert an American ally into an unfriendly neighbor. > But that is par for the course, with the amateur government we have! > [@Kobal2](#): > > Indeed, a Republican President would \*never \*alienate America’s allpfffff sorry I couldn’t keep a straight face. Were you in a coma over the last 15 years, by any chance ? Also, why did Obama move the U.S. so it became Brazil’s neighbor? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/53 "2013-12-20T17:09:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Also, why did Obama move the U.S. so it became Brazil’s neighbor? Brazil, Mexico. Who the hell can tell the difference?! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/54 "2013-12-20T17:11:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Also, why did Obama move the U.S. so it became Brazil’s neighbor? One could also ask when Brazil was an American ally. The United States and Brazil are both members of the OAS but that’s not an alliance system (Cuba’s also a member and I doubt anyone would describe Cuba as an American ally). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/55 "2013-12-20T17:17:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Also, why did Obama move the U.S. so it became Brazil’s neighbor? Agenda 21. They hushed it all up of course. Google maps is part of the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/56 "2013-12-20T17:21:54Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Exactly HOW does this relate to Obama’s duplicity killing a Brazilian fighter deal?😕 Hasn’t the NSA spying program been around for a lot longer than five years. I don’t think that you can just put the blame on Obama for this. It started up under the Bush administration, and Obama continued it. Hell, the US has meddled in Brazilian politics before, don’t forget [Operation Brother Sam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat). ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/57 "2013-12-20T17:43:44Z")
> [@dangerosa](#): > > you know, i almost looked it up because i wasn’t 100% sure, but swedes are pretty well known for their ability to build a quality product as well. > [@quicksilver](#): > > ikea. Minecraft!!! ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/58 "2013-12-20T17:57:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > All kidding aside, why is it so funny when Obama manages to convert an American ally into an unfriendly neighbor. > But that is par for the course, with the amateur government we have! Ralph, I think most of the people here are not actually thinking that this story is funny, they are thinking that it is funny when you try to post about… well anything to be truthful. You are a professional comedic writer, right? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/59 "2013-12-20T18:00:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you argue with a Republican President, you’re wrong and if you argue with a Democratic President, you’re right. In fairness, that’s pretty much the standard right-wing line. Doesn’t everybody remember all the folks who were saying it was _treasonous_ not to toe the line with Bush’s oversteps because, by god, _you don’t argue with the President in times of War!_. What are those people doing now? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780/60 "2013-12-20T18:09:56Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > Hasn’t the NSA spying program been around for a lot longer than five years. I don’t think that you can just put the blame on Obama for this. It started up under the Bush administration, and Obama continued it. Hell, the US has meddled in Brazilian politics before, don’t forget [Operation Brother Sam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat). Yep, blame it on Bush (c)! Only problem, Obama has been using that one for 5 years now…it is wearing a bit thin! But (of course) he (Obama) learned about it from the news media-he doesn’t have time to do his job!😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-going-obama-brazil-chooses-saab-over-boeing/676780.md?page=4)