# Nice Move, Jackass: Three Dead in Courthouse Shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 11, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053 "2005-03-11T17:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/1 "2005-03-11T17:50:55Z")
Three people were killed this morning in an Atlanta courtroom because an asshat judge didn’t want to shackle a violent criminal, lest it prejudice the jury. Well, he got what was coming to him. > [@](#): > > Fulton County Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes was shot when the defendant, Brian Nichols, 33, grabbed a gun from one of the deputies and opened fire inside the eighth-floor courtroom in the Fulton County Courthouse, witnesses said. Also killed were court reporter Julie Brandau and a woman deputy whose name has not yet been released. > > Renee Rockwell, a defense attorney in another case, said Nichols’s lawyer and the prosecutor were both “concerned about this defendant.” She said they viewed him as “very violent and unpredictable.” Rockwell said of Nichols, “He was a disturbed individual.” > > Jurors said Nichols had a tendency to glare at them during the proceedings, which started Tuesday. The defendant had yet to take the stand in the trial. > > In addition to rape and kidnapping, Nichols also faced sodomy, weapons and drug charges in the case. He reportedly faced the prospect of a life sentence if convicted. > > Evelyn Parker, a court reporter who was a close friend of Brandau, said, “There were concerns that he wasn’t going to take [a guilty verdict] lying down.” ([http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26611-2005Mar11.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26611-2005Mar11.html)) You had an extremely dangerous accused rapist/kidnapper in your courtroom, but didn’t want to cuff him. As a result, you’re dead, and so is your court reporter and a deputy. Three senseless deaths that could have been easily prevented if you had just taken the commen sense step of restraining the defendant. I hope there weren’t young children in any of the deceaseds’ families. You fucking moron. How could you have been that stupid and naive? As for Mr. Nichols, I just hope he doesn’t hurt anyone else before the cops fatally phlebotomize him with a rain of steaming lead. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/2 "2005-03-11T18:02:36Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > Three people were killed this morning in an Atlanta courtroom because an asshat judge didn’t want to shackle a violent criminal, lest it prejudice the jury. Well, he got what was coming to him. What a fucking asshole you are. Very few defendants are shackled in the courtroom at all, and most of those who are are unshackled before the jury makes its entrance. You are displaying some severe ignorance here, as well as being a fucking asshole. Why aren’t you pitting the guard for performing his job so imcompetently as to allow a dangerous criminal to take his gun? Oh, because that doesn’t fit in with your attack on soft-on-criminals judges. Fucking asshole. Why aren’t you pitting the criminal, the murderer? Because you’re a fucking asshole. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/3 "2005-03-11T18:35:34Z")
Most defendants don’t need restraining because most aren’t crazed violent sociopaths, **This Year’s Model**. This guy should have been in cuffs. I’ll plead guilty to the ignorance - perhaps you can explain the procedures used to determine whether a defendant should be restrained. If the prosecutor and defense didn’t make it clear to the judge that this guy was dangerous, then I’ll excuse him. You’re right, the guard should get blame too. Maybe it isn’t the judge’s fault at all - it just looks like he could have prevented this from where I’m sitting. I did pit the criminal - he’s included at the bottom. I didn’t waste a lot of words on him because he’s scum. I expect nothing from scum, but I expect much more from a judge. There’s not a whole lot to say about Nichols, and what there is I already said: I hope the cops take him down swiftly and without further injury to anyone else. On an aesthetic note, you might want to try expanding your repertoire of insults beyond “fucking asshole.” ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/4 "2005-03-11T18:40:54Z")
I would also like to rescind and apologize for the “he got what was coming to him” remark. It was just something I typed in the heat of the moment. He certainly did not deserve to die for his (apparent) error. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/5 "2005-03-11T18:45:27Z")
Before the jury came back, he was an innocent man. True or false? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/6 "2005-03-11T18:48:02Z")
How the fuck did he make it out of the building? The courtroom was on the 8 floor! ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/7 "2005-03-11T18:51:58Z")
> [@From the OP's link](#): > > In addition to rape and kidnapping, Nichols also faced **sodomy** , weapons and drug charges in the case. He reportedly faced the prospect of a life sentence if convicted. Sodomy is still a crime that’s being prosecuted? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/8 "2005-03-11T18:55:05Z")
I’ve been watching this on Fox and they say he took the female’sgun who was transporting him. They are also saying it prejudices the jury to cuff someone unlss they frea out in front of the jury. Also, they are trying to tie it to the judges family being shot last week as its a judge killing trend now. I’m sure they will find him. He’ll be cuffed next time. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/9 "2005-03-11T18:56:51Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > Before the jury came back, he was an innocent man. True or false? True, which is why I referred to him as a defendant and an accused. I did call him a criminal once though. I assume this guy had a history. If not, _mea culpa_, but I think his criminality has been well established now. ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/10 "2005-03-11T18:59:18Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Sodomy is still a crime that’s being prosecuted? 😕 I seriously doubt he was being prosecuted for _consensual_ sodomy but the article doesn’t make that clear. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/11 "2005-03-11T18:59:28Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Sodomy is still a crime that’s being prosecuted? 😕 I don’t know the specifics in that state, but many still prosecute oral or anal rape under the sodomy label. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/12 "2005-03-11T19:10:07Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Sodomy is still a crime that’s being prosecuted? 😕 [It is still on the books in Georgia](http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl?code=16-6-2): > [@](#): > > 16-6-2. > > (a) A person commits the offense of sodomy when he or she performs or submits to any sexual act involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another. A person commits the offense of aggravated sodomy when he or she commits sodomy with force and against the will of the other person or when he or she commits sodomy with a person who is less than ten years of age. The fact that the person allegedly sodomized is the spouse of a defendant shall not be a defense to a charge of aggravated sodomy. Whether it is still prosecuted under that section is undetermined. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/13 "2005-03-11T19:11:56Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > I would also like to rescind and apologize for the “he got what was coming to him” remark. It was just something I typed in the heat of the moment. He certainly did not deserve to die for his (apparent) error. Well, that’s what pushed my button. I’ll rescind my “fucking asshole” remarks. As far as shackling a criminal defendant, there must be hearing that shows a compelling need to do so, and that lesser remedies will not work. There isn’t any evidence that anybody even asked that he be shackled. Obviously, if he is taken alive, I’d certainly expect that he’ll be shackled at his next trial. But remarks that the defendant was viewed as “very violent and unpredictable” do not by themselves demonstrate the need for shackling. It is so completely prejudicial that extremely good reason needs to be there. Presumably he made it through his first trial without it. Hindsight is always 20-20. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/14 "2005-03-11T19:17:24Z")
Thanks for finding that **Fear Itself** ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/15 "2005-03-11T19:24:40Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Thanks for finding that **Fear Itself** My pleasure. Did you notice that sodomy with a child over the age of ten is not ‘aggravated’? The minds of the Georgia legislators that wrote that are strange and scary places indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/16 "2005-03-11T20:19:40Z")
I have heard it referred to as forced sodomy multiple times on the radio today. Part of the rape of his girlfriend. Also, according to reports (and we all know how journalists issue sterling reports all the time in the heat of the moment), he has apparently tried multiple times to sneak weapons into court. So, not shackling was probably not a great idea. At the same time, grabbing a gun from a deputy isn’t exactly an everyday occurence. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/17 "2005-03-11T20:21:48Z")
You do realize that he wasn’t in the courtroom when he grabbed the gun, right? > [@](#): > > Fulton Sheriff’s Sgt. Mike Thompson described how a man in custody was able to obtain the gun he used to shoot and kill three people this morning at the Fulton County Courthouse. > > Thompson said Deputy Cynthia Hall had shooting suspect Brian Nichols in a holding area on the eighth floor of the Justice Center Tower in downtown Atlanta. Nichols was changing his jail clothes to his street clothes to appear before Fulton County Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes in his rape case. > > Before Hall was able to handcuff Nichols after he had changed, Thompson said, he grabbed the deputy’s gun and shot her and grabbed her keys. Nichols needed the keys to leave the the hold room, which was between courtrooms 8A and 8B in the newest part of the courthouse. > > Nichols opened the door and ran across a nearby walkway that connects the new part of the justice center to the old part, where Barnes was in court. Nichols made his way to the courtroom, entered and began shooting, Thompson said. Barnes was shot in the head. Court reporter Julie Brandau was also shot. Both died on the scene. [Sheriff’s official tells how shootings happened](http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/0305/11happened.html) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/18 "2005-03-11T20:39:59Z")
> [@SanibelMan](#): > > You do realize that he wasn’t in the courtroom when he grabbed the gun, right? I had just read that, and was coming in to update my attitude. There is absolutely no reason he could not have been shackled while in transit. My issues (and various courts’ issues) with shackling are when it occurs in the presence of the jury. Since he has been in custody, and was being transferred from jail to court, he should have been shackled. I’m not sure this has anything to do with the judge, though - seems to me this would fall under police procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/19 "2005-03-11T20:41:58Z")
> [@SanibelMan](#): > > Sheriff’s official tells how shootings happened Shit. I read the quote, you’d never know it! I think I need a nap. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053/20 "2005-03-11T21:00:58Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > How the fuck did he make it out of the building? The courtroom was on the 8 floor! When you’ve got a gun and you’re insane, people tend to get out of the way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-move-jackass-three-dead-in-courthouse-shooting/294053.md?page=2)