# Nice songs with one ugly chord? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 3, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717 "2018-09-03T23:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/21 "2018-09-05T16:53:08Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > We can’t really say what musicians “should” or shouldn’t do, we can only talk about how we think it relates to established forms, and what we think about that. > > I’d call this case a stinger, a small note or phrase to accentuate transitions, beginnings, or endings. > > Some composers like to throw a curveball just to be a little less predictable or conventional. At the end of a song our ear expects chords to resolve as we’re accustomed to them. Usually that means a chord in the main key of the song, with the leading voice landing on the tonic (the main note, for lack of a better word). > > Here the stinger is a 3rd… just a bit more unconventional, but not much. You’d hardly notice except it’s preceded by a 2nd as a grace note, which is mildly dissonant, but again not overly unconventional. Then the final interesting bit is that it’s rhythmically a bit out of place, after the rest of the combo has hit the last note. > > As a musician why would I do that? Personally I’d do it as a fun improvisational thing to be cute and get the last “word” in a performance. > > It doesn’t bother me at all, and the above is an explanation why, but I can see how it might hit some people’s ear funny or annoying. You kind of know he’s being a smartass. It was a multitrack studio recording. What wound up on it and off of it was in the mixing, not really the players option. I think the players were probably just playing the song to the end with no plan. Then on mixing it might be that fagen, who had played the notes, (Which sound like he was in tune and in time) might decide then to leave it in. But really I can’t imagine any sort of musical analysis that led to it. Steely Dan were about avoiding cliche basically, which this seems like another example of. That is expected on dan records as the baseline. Many more dan songs have these things to defeat expectations than don’t. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/22 "2018-09-05T17:58:43Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It was a multitrack studio recording. What wound up on it and off of it was in the mixing, not really the players option. I think the players were probably just playing the song to the end with no plan. Well yes, that’s how recording works. You do the first cut and then refine it. You’re mistaken if you think the players have no choice in what’s kept or discarded. > [@](#): > > But really I can’t imagine any sort of musical analysis that led to it. Well no, most popular musicians are just reusing well-established motifs. Composing by theory is less the norm than just hammering out a tune and trying to make it work. We analyze it after the fact to understand why it strikes us a certain way. I don’t much see Steely Dan as anything very special, but it’s a matter of taste and historical context. They were innovative for their time. I’m just explaining how that particular little stinger sounds a bit unexpected and interesting while still fitting squarely in the framework of expectations. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/23 "2018-09-05T18:12:05Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I thought he was talking about the very beginning, during which Jimi plays a series of Bb/E, E/Bb double stops before the real lead guitar comes in. If E is the tonic, the Bb is a flatted fifth. I don’t have a guitar nearby, am I remembering those notes correctly? Seems like it may depend on what version you hear. In some, I only hear Jimi playing the A, in others, it sounds like he sometimes double stops it. Like I only hear [him bouncing around on octaves here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjwWjx7Cw8I). I managed to find the studio version, and there it is seems he he might be playing double stops, but still primarily sounds like only the A to me, with the Eb provided by the bass. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/24 "2018-09-05T18:20:19Z")
ETA: The notes are fretted as E and Bb, but he plays a half-step down, so it’s concert Eb and A. Either way, a tritone. Looking at the transcriptions online, [I also see them notated as single notes](https://guitaralliance.com/ROMTOP100/songs/purple_haze/hendrix_jimi-purple_haze.pdf) for Jimi’s part. I mean, they could be played as double stops, but I don’t seem to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/25 "2018-09-05T18:44:54Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Well yes, that’s how recording works. You do the first cut and then refine it. You’re mistaken if you think the players have no choice in what’s kept or discarded. > Well no, most popular musicians are just reusing well-established motifs. Composing by theory is less the norm than just hammering out a tune and trying to make it work. > We analyze it after the fact to understand why it strikes us a certain way. > > I don’t much see Steely Dan as anything very special, but it’s a matter of taste and historical context. They were innovative for their time. I’m just explaining how that particular little stinger sounds a bit unexpected and interesting while still fitting squarely in the framework of expectations. Multitrack recording is when you have tracks for separate instruments, done at different times, mostly before the tune is imaginable as a record. Mixing is the thing you do over again to refine until you get your record. Stray notes would be part of a particular mix. But players have no control about what may be used, unless they are consulted for the mix. Same as movie actors. Or Steely Dan sessioners in fact. There are binders full of guys whose parts didn’t get used on Dan LPs. Donald was the composer/ producer too. So he got to mix it, which is why those notes were left on. He would have put them on even if he wasn’t the pianist, as he was the producer and responsible for the mix. To be honest I’ve never conscously heard those notes. They seemed like a natural dan ending. It was certainly consistent with other dan tunes strategy at the end. That’s why “stinger” sounds weird to me. The piano is in tune with the steel, ending the tune relatively consonantly. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/26 "2018-09-06T08:38:49Z")
Thank you guys, that was enlightening. j ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/27 "2018-09-06T13:19:15Z")
“[here comes your man](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPgf_btTFlc)” by the Pixies has a crashing mess of a chord right at the beginning, which nicely sets up the rest of the song. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/28 "2018-09-06T13:40:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > But players have no control about what may be used, unless they are consulted for the mix. Same as movie actors. Or Steely Dan sessioners in fact. There are binders full of guys whose parts didn’t get used on Dan LPs. Apparently Steely Dan was well known for this. I read an interview with a guitarist who did sessions for them (I cannot remember which one but I am sure you would recognize the name) who said multiple players would lay down all these tracks and never find out which one was picked until the record came out. There is a [video mini-documentary about the making of _Peg_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIBA6_0GQc) that shows Fagen and Becker listening to various alternate guitar solos until they heard one they liked that was chosen for the record. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/29 "2018-09-06T13:48:46Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > At the very end of Steely Dan’s Pearl of the Quarter ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_GM8vnIZFw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GM8vnIZFw0)) there is a tiny out-of-place keyboard - uh - flourish. It sprang immediately to mind. > > Is there a particular\* musical\* reason for this that I don’t understand? > [@pulykamell](#): > > It doesn’t seem all that out-of-place to me, but I can get what you’re getting at. I mean, no, there’s no reason that two-note piano “tickle” (my description, not a term of art) has to be there, but it does sort of fill in the phrase the slide guitar sets up. That said, it would have sounded fine without the ending flourish, too. The notes the guitar phrase ends on are “ending notes.” > > So, basically, it’s just there for color/character. I have heard that tune dozens of times and never noticed that. I would call it a musical joke. It is totally out of character with the entire musical concept of the song, but it is a New Orleans honky-tonk piano flourish, and the song is about his sweetheart (or imagined sweetheart, I can never tell what’s going on in SD lyrics) in New Orleans. So out of place musically but an essential part of the storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/30 "2018-09-06T16:42:53Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Apparently Steely Dan was well known for this. I read an interview with a guitarist who did sessions for them (I cannot remember which one but I am sure you would recognize the name) who said multiple players would lay down all these tracks and never find out which one was picked until the record came out. There is a [video mini-documentary about the making of _Peg_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIBA6_0GQc) that shows Fagen and Becker listening to various alternate guitar solos until they heard one they liked that was chosen for the record. I remember seeing that, about the solo in Peg. What a solo. If you check the ending of Bodhisatva it ends with a big piano chord. So when it happens a little on another song, you kind of recognize the idea again, even if only unconsciously. It was only their second LP. I’m thinking that a little fagen piano at the end was his brag, and personal gesture. After you heard the one in Bodi you would be more casual about it happening again on the LP, like “Oh they like to do that” ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/31 "2018-09-06T16:52:55Z")
Beatles, again: Last verse of, “Let it Be.” Paul plays an obvious mistake on the piano. Why didn’t he fix it? Ran out of money? Ran out of time? Ran out of tracks? Why doesn’t Mr. Maudling do something about it before it is too late? Ohhhh….God… ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/32 "2018-09-06T17:13:13Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Beatles, again: > > Last verse of, “Let it Be.” Paul plays an obvious mistake on the piano. Why didn’t he fix it? Ran out of money? Ran out of time? Ran out of tracks? Why doesn’t Mr. Maudling do something about it before it is too late? Ohhhh….God… That note has annoyed me for decades but I’m not 100% sure it was a mistake. It appeared only in that verse but it could possibly be a sus2 that resolves on the next beat. I don’t like it, but it could have been deliberate. I have never seen a statement by a Beatle or anyone involved in the recording on this. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/33 "2018-09-06T17:20:28Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > That note has annoyed me for decades but I’m not 100% sure it was a mistake. It appeared only in that verse but it could possibly be a sus2 that resolves on the next beat. I don’t like it, but it could have been deliberate. I have never seen a statement by a Beatle or anyone involved in the recording on this. We talked about this in at least one other thread on the Dope, and, to me, it’s clearly a flub, based on the fact that it’s only in that verse and because a simple hand positioning error explains it. (And I believe no other versions of it contain that flubbed chord.) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/34 "2018-09-06T17:57:15Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > That note has annoyed me for decades but I’m not 100% sure it was a mistake. It appeared only in that verse but it could possibly be a sus2 that resolves on the next beat. I don’t like it, but it could have been deliberate. I have wondered about that myself. I first thought it was a mistake, then upon re-listening I could be easily be convinced it’s intentional. It’s not a difficult passage or song, so I’d be surprised if Paul goofed it. Maybe he just took a rip off the bong and said “screw it, this band is about over anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717/35 "2018-09-07T04:36:53Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Multitrack recording is when you have tracks for separate instruments, done at different times, mostly before the tune is imaginable as a record. Mixing is the thing you do over again to refine until you get your record. Stray notes would be part of a particular mix. But players have no control about what may be used, unless they are consulted for the mix. Same as movie actors. Or Steely Dan sessioners in fact. There are binders full of guys whose parts didn’t get used on Dan LPs. That depends on how the band is run. Some bands will have the band members all sitting around listening and having input while the mix is done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-songs-with-one-ugly-chord/820717.md?page=1)