# Nice try, Fotheringay-Phipps. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086 "2009-05-20T16:20:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/61 "2009-05-21T21:16:37Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > 3.) You’re an F-P alt account, a troll, or just as much of a moron as he is. Regardless of which of these is the case, welcome to ignoreland–I’m sure you and F-P will be very happy together there. Unless you dislike R.E.M., because, quite appropriately, “Ignoreland” is what gets piped in through the ignoreland speakers. On an infinite loop. Ok, now you have truly made me laugh. The idea that I’m an alt for anyone on the board, let alone the poster in question, shows just how little of what I’ve written here you’ve ever read. I’ve not supported the pitted poster in any way. I’ve simply pointed out that the efforts to pit said poster have been very, very weak. If you are going to attack someone ad hominem, make it worth while. Get into the nitty-gritty. Say something truly pithy (preferably something on a level higher than the 14-year-olds I teach daily). Make at least SOME appeal to logic, or if that’s not applicable, then do a really, really good job of simply being nasty. So far, in this thread, that’s been lacking. As noted, the quality of complaint lacks much of value; when the best you can come up with is to talk about calling anyone a “retard,” you’ve pretty much demonstrated your lack of linguistic agility. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/62 "2009-05-21T21:24:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I reserve the effort to produce quality attacks for times when I take the target seriously. Since I’ve sized up F-P as a pretentious git, I’ve no need to bring my A-game. Well, if you aren’t going to bring your “A” game, why bring your “D” game? I mean, really. Pretending to have the sophisitication of a drunk at a back-alley bar on a Thursday night at 2 a.m. doesn’t seem to have much point. I mean, you could always respond, “your mother!” in that case. And a pretentious git is exactly the person to bring the “A” game to attack. The key will be to do it in a non-pretentious way. Words of one syllable, in sentences of limited length, just to emphasize how pretentious the git is. Drive home the point with less-than-subtle references to barnyard animals, fornication, and/or sewer effluvium, just to make sure the git doesn’t mistake your premise. When needed, comb that unabridged thesaurus (preferably the one with the long dangling participles) for really, really pithy vocabulary, the type you imagine a German officer using to subdue an enemy. And then stand back and watch while the pretentious git struggles to compose an adequate response, one that doesn’t highlight exactly the dichotomy you have so helpfully and colorfully illustrated. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/63 "2009-05-22T01:30:27Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I mean, really. Pretending to have the sophisitication of a drunk at a back-alley bar on a Thursday night at 2 a.m. doesn’t seem to have much point. _Pretending_?! Harrumph. > [@](#): > > And a pretentious git is exactly the person to bring the “A” game to attack. The key will be to do it in a non-pretentious way. Words of one syllable, in sentences of limited length, just to emphasize how pretentious the git is. Drive home the point with less-than-subtle references to barnyard animals, fornication, and/or sewer effluvium, just to make sure the git doesn’t mistake your premise. When needed, comb that unabridged thesaurus (preferably the one with the long dangling participles) for really, really pithy vocabulary, the type you imagine a German officer using to subdue an enemy. And then stand back and watch while the pretentious git struggles to compose an adequate response, one that doesn’t highlight exactly the dichotomy you have so helpfully and colorfully illustrated. 😉 Excellent advice, to be sure, but a waste of time with this particular git, who’ll simply pretend to miss the irony and act as though he really _were_ speaking to a 2 a.m. drunk. It’s not his admonishment I’m after per se (he is teh stoopid, after all), but simply the laughs for myself and others I can wring out at his expense. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/64 "2009-05-22T01:47:05Z")
Bless his heart, he means well. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/65 "2009-05-22T17:26:24Z")
I offer as an excellent example of the proper pithyness [post=11167285]this mid-pitting rant by **ivn1188** [/post]. Mind you, it’s not the type of language mother asked me to use … :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/66 "2009-05-23T05:46:39Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I offer as an excellent example of the proper pithyness [post=11167285]this mid-pitting rant by **ivn1188** [/post]. Mind you, it’s not the type of language mother asked me to use … :eek: But for the mysterious “skyclad” reference, that was quite amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/67 "2009-05-23T05:52:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > But for the mysterious “skyclad” reference, that was quite amusing. “Skyclad” = pagan-poseur-speak for “nekkid while outdoors” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/68 "2018-02-02T23:27:26Z")
I was debating whether to post some remarks on this fine individual in the Omnibus thread or start a new pitting, but I think it’s appropriate to resurrect this old thread because it’s so remarkably pertinent. It will shortly be noted how **Fotheringay-Phipps** ’s argumentative techniques haven’t changed in a decade: whether he’s advocating for torture as a terrific technique for information-gathering as he does there, or putting forward a pack of lies in the service of immoral health insurers, he’s still an unethical disingenuous fuck who rejects as not worth addressing any arguments he doesn’t agree with, and always winds up on the wrong side of ethics. My current beef is with his antics in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848208). I have occasionally expressed the view that in the context of health care, the health insurance industry is completely useless, and in fact worse than useless, because it adds zero value and contributes enormously to unnecessary high costs. They provide no value added because nothing they do has not been done far more ethically and efficiently by a universal public single-payer system. Insurance companies don’t provide medical services, they block access to them. They don’t fund medical research, they suck money out of the health system. They’re parasites on the system. [Sometimes, they kill people by willfully withholding medical care.](https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Spin-Insurance-Corporate-Deceiving-ebook/dp/B0049195R0) It’s hard to think of a more contemptible way of making money that isn’t run by the Mafia. Yes, It’s a business opportunity that’s been created by the failure of public policy, but it’s public policy that’s been made to fail almost single-handedly by this industry’s lobbyists. It turns out that **Fotheringay-Phipps** works for them. As an actuary. Think about what this means. Since ethical UHC systems are premised on the idea of community-rated costs (the general idea that everyone pays the same premiums and receives uniform unconditional coverage), it means that **Fotheringay-Phipps** inhabits the very core of the worst practices of privately insured health care: he makes his living deciding how much more sick people and old people should pay for health insurance compared to healthier people. All of this of course makes him so knowledgeable about the perils of single payer and UHC – that scourge of socialism – and so incredibly impartial, angelic, and piously unbiased – that **he has announced his intention of refusing any further discussion with any advocate of such terrible systems of socialized medicine** , such as myself. Note the similarity to the pitting in the OP. This is understandable, since all I know about single-payer comes from a lifetime of experience, whereas **Fotheringay-Phipps** has the full benefit of being employed by a for-profit health insurer and therefore has a _ **totally fair and completely impartial** _ viewpoint that I can never hope to match. He has, indeed, analyzed all the facts impartially, and amazingly it turns out that insurance companies are in no way to blame for any problems whatsoever in the health care system, and are in fact its heroes and its blessed salvation, and anyone who believes otherwise based on things like “facts” is kindly invited to talk to themselves, because they won’t be talking to **Fotheringay-Phipps**. I only mention this because people might naturally be inclined to conclude that **Fotheringay-Phipps** himself is completely useless, and perhaps worse than useless, and that his opinions on the subject are loathsome and worthless, and that he himself is a worthless self-serving unethical piece of shit. That would be too bad – at least for **Fotheringay-Phipps** – if anyone thought that. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/69 "2018-02-02T23:35:40Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Dude’s a troll. Ignore him. No shit. A troll and a bullshitter. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/70 "2018-02-02T23:37:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Bless his heart** , he means well. He’s “special” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/71 "2018-02-02T23:47:13Z")
Well done, good sir. **Fotheringay-Phipps** is the undisputed king of nitpicking instead of honest debate. Trying to have a straightforward conversation with him is like playing a game of whack-a-mole: you think the conversation is over here, but no, it pops up over there. He’ll argue with you about your cites. He’ll argue with you against his own cites. If he would just apply a smidgen of intellectual honesty to his posting habits, he’d be a net benefit. He can’t do it. He’s like a shyster car salesman (with apologies to the honest ones here and elsewhere). He’ll change his pitch constantly to try to make his sale and “win”. I expect this Pit thread will go the way the others have, but I understand the impulse. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/72 "2018-02-03T00:05:47Z")
Oh, it’s worse than that. He’s an intellectual coward. He deflects, trying to throw shade on his adversaries by proclaiming them too stupid to grasp his finely-made points. When cornered, he flings his wrist to his forehead and scurries away, tossing disparaging comments over his shoulder about how he just can’t be bothered any longer to waste his time on such inferior minds who are incapable of understanding the indisputable truth of what he is trying to say. Disingenuous, slippery as snot and a complete dickhead. Hasn’t changed in all these years, I see. Also my first (and hopefully only) contribution to an Omnibus Troll Thread. Hat tip to **wolfpup** , who has argued persuasively and with facts a’plenty in the healthcare thread. I read with admiration. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/73 "2018-02-03T15:04:15Z")
**F-P** is a loathsome and disingenuous douche bag who, to my mind, personifies the epithet, “Banality of Evil”. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/74 "2018-02-03T20:04:19Z")
Trying to keep track here…So - _how many_ **Fotheringay-Phipps** pit threads are there? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/75 "2018-02-03T20:12:50Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Trying to keep track here…So - _how many_ **Fotheringay-Phipps** pit threads are there? As many as it takes. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/76 "2018-02-03T20:14:17Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Trying to keep track here…So - _how many_ **Fotheringay-Phipps** pit threads are there? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > As many as it takes. It’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/77 "2018-02-03T20:18:22Z")
I learned everything I needed to know about F-P in this thread. The fun starts with post 39 and continues on and off for a couple of pages. > **[When a Mentalist or Sherlock Holmes "read" someone](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=749752)** > > When a mentalist or Sherlock Holmes “read” someone is that real or is it pure fiction ? In other words, can you look at a persons clothes, dialogue and body language and determine that they are a recently unemployed accountant who loves the Dallas... Basically F-P hired a magician once for a party. He was very impressed by a specific trick. A couple of knowledgeable people describe at length how the trick is performed. One of them even, based on F-P’s description of the trick, identifies a specific prop ( a widely used trick book ). But the thing about magic is that the magician tricks you. He leads you to make specific choices without you realizing you’ve been lead. And F-P feels he’s just too savvy to be tricked. So he spends a couple of pages fighting it. He was insisting that …actually, I was never really clear on his alternate theory. But no one tricked F-P , this birthday party magician must’ve had real magical powers or something. It was sort of the conspiracy theorist thought pattern - “the obvious explanation is wrong and the lack of a coherent alternative theory does not affect my assessment.” This thread was really one of the most astounding things I have read on this board. Check it out, you won’t regret it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/78 "2018-02-03T20:31:04Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Check it out, you won’t regret it. I bet I will. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/79 "2018-02-03T20:41:48Z")
Honestly, it sounds exhausting just by description. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086/80 "2018-02-03T20:48:40Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I learned everything I needed to know about F-P in this thread. The fun starts with post 39 and continues on and off for a couple of pages. > > [When a Mentalist or Sherlock Holmes "read" someone - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=749752) > > Basically F-P hired a magician once for a party. He was very impressed by a specific trick. A couple of knowledgeable people describe at length how the trick is performed. One of them even, based on F-P’s description of the trick, identifies a specific prop ( a widely used trick book ). > > But the thing about magic is that the magician tricks you. He leads you to make specific choices without you realizing you’ve been lead. > > And F-P feels he’s just too savvy to be tricked. So he spends a couple of pages fighting it. He was insisting that …actually, I was never really clear on his alternate theory. But no one tricked F-P , this birthday party magician must’ve had real magical powers or something. It was sort of the conspiracy theorist thought pattern - “the obvious explanation is wrong and the lack of a coherent alternative theory does not affect my assessment.” > > This thread was really one of the most astounding things I have read on this board. Check it out, you won’t regret it. So, you are saying that he believes in magic. And that these people who have obscure powers of the arcane are available for hire for children’s birthday parties. That’s perfectly reasonable to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nice-try-fotheringay-phipps/497086.md?page=5)