# Nick Hanauer on the rich, taxes and job creation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508 "2012-05-20T12:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/21 "2012-05-24T19:05:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why should we listen to a class traitor? 😉 Because we do not belong to his class and never will. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/22 "2012-05-24T19:07:29Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Taxing the rich doesn’t increase demand, though. Only cutting taxes on the masses can do that, and that’s what’s caused all our deficit problems in the first place. During the Great Depression the government created demand by hiring people directly. These spent their paychecks, encouraging employers to produce more, and to hire more. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/23 "2012-05-24T19:47:45Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > During the Great Depression the government created demand by hiring people directly. These spent their paychecks, encouraging employers to produce more, and to hire more. Giving money to poor people has the greatest effectiveness of all options. [Moody’s Analytics found](http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Stimulus-Impact-2008.pdf) that extending the Bush tax cuts would have a multiplier effect of $.48 on the dollar, while a temporary increase in food stamps would return $1.73. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/24 "2012-05-25T15:01:30Z")
An economy only works if people are demanding services/products, otherwise you just have stagnant supply with nobody who wants/can afford it. Jobs are created when you need additional help to meet/take advantage of the increased demand. That’s what Keynesian economics aims to address; boosting aggregate demand. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/25 "2012-05-25T15:51:15Z")
Reality completely debunks the rich as job creator myth. On one side of the ledger, corporate profits [hit record levels in 2011](http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2012/pdf/gdp4q11_adv.pdf). CEO pay [increased 6% in 2011](http://finance.yahoo.com/news/typical-ceo-made-9-6m-100244495.html). On the other side, since Obama took office government spending has grown [at 1.4%–the lowest growth since the 1950’s](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-spending-binge-never-happened-2012-05-22?pagenumber=1) (if you take inflation into account, spending actually decreased). And tax rates are the [lowest they’ve been in 60 years](http://money.msn.com/taxes/todays-taxes-lowest-in-60-years.aspx). Based on usual the right-wing claptrap about the “job creators”, I’d expect a roaring economy with low unemployment. I guess the fact it isn’t here is just proof that we still haven’t done enough to appease our noble corporate masters. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/26 "2012-05-25T17:46:02Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Based on usual the right-wing claptrap about the “job creators”, I’d expect a roaring economy with low unemployment. I guess the fact it isn’t here is just proof that we still haven’t done enough to appease our noble corporate masters. All Hail the Corporate Masters!! Kowtow, I say!! Kowtow MORE! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/27 "2012-05-25T18:41:40Z")
Okay, so when we take in the economic fact that the country does better when the wealthy are taxed at a higher rate than they are now and the middle class and poor have more disposable income, and add in the fact that [“more than half of Republicans say wealthier Americans should pay more in taxes” (and “more than two-thirds of all Americans back higher taxes on the rich” as a whole)](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-10/cain-pulls-even-with-romney-on-economy-for-republican-supporters-in-poll.html) why is it that this is controversial? Why is this even an issue when everyone including a majority of REPUBLICANS agree on it? Oh right… Because socialism. And gay marriage. And immigrants are stealing jobs. And baby killing. Got it. :roll eyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/28 "2012-05-30T22:11:51Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I suspect the people who don’t are in businesses that have little contact with people of average incomes, or are isolated from consumers they are dependent upon. A lot of TED folks sell things to industry. > [@](#): > > It’s the classic “smart greedy”/“stupid greedy” divide. Henry Ford understood that you needed a market for what you sell so he increased the wage level so that people could keep more of their productivity and buy his cars. Its not just about taxes, its also about how the economy allocates income to labor versus capital. American productivity, indeed global productivity has been outrunning wages for decades while capital has been grabbing a larger and larger share of the product of capital and labor. Henry Ford increased his wages and increased the cost fo his cars to cover the cost. Capital can go anywhere it wants while labor is geographically restricted. When you get a bunch of really smart guys working on behalf of a large pool of capital its called “the free mrket” When you get people who aren’t even all that smart working on behalf of a large pool of labor, its called dirty names. > [@](#): > > Exactly. You can buy [a limited edition cell phone that costs more than a million dollars](http://most-expensive.net/cell-phone-mobile), but it makes much more sense to sell millions of them at $200 a throw. Some people can’t stand the thought of the peasants making more than they need to keep body and soul together. For example, $0.25 of the cost of a pint of strawberries is labor to pick, wash and pack strawberries. We could make strawberry picking a job that only illegal aliens would take to a job with a living wage if we were willing to increase the cost of a pint of strawberries from $3 to $3.25 but we don’t and as a result you have people saving $0.25 on their pint of strawberries and an entire class of labor that scrapes by hand to mouth rather than have a modest but livable wage. Despite the bad rap that inflation gets among economists, wage driven inflation is generally not a bad thing as long as you have a social safety net for the elderly. > [@](#): > > I only know one TED attendee, the guy I used to work for at Hallmark Cards. His job was discovering new business opportunities - I built their first web greeting card store. Smartest person I’ve ever worked for. The guys on the bleeding edge of technology are by necessity a pretty visionary group. Sometimes they can be a bit wierd. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > more than half of Republicans say wealthier Americans should pay more in taxes" (and “more than two-thirds of all Americans back higher taxes on the rich” as a whole) why is it that this is controversial? Why is this even an issue when everyone including a majority of REPUBLICANS agree on it? > > Oh right… Because socialism. And gay marriage. And immigrants are stealing jobs. And baby killing. Got it. :roll eyes: Because the Republicans that say that wealthier Americans should pay more taxes are generally not the ones taht are contributing millions of dollars to superpacs. They keep the poor Republicans in line by pointing out that the other guys are killing babies. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508/29 "2012-05-30T23:28:01Z")
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi] Some people can’t stand the thought of the peasants making more than they need to keep body and soul together. For example, $0.25 of the cost of a pint of strawberries is labor to pick, wash and pack strawberries. We could make strawberry picking a job that only illegal aliens would take to a job with a living wage if we were willing to increase the cost of a pint of strawberries from $3 to $3.25 but we don’t and as a result you have people saving $0.25 on their pint of strawberries and an entire class of labor that scrapes by hand to mouth rather than have a modest but livable wage. [/quote] The opposite is happening. Rather than pay a decent wage for strawberry picking, the fruit industry is spending millions developing automated fruit-picking machinery. It will use stereoscopic cameras to precisely locate each berry, grade quality and ripeness, and produce perfectly packed containers of fruit. And it will work all night. Within five years, berry, apple, grape and orange harvesting will be as automated as a wheat harvest. > [@](#): > > Because the Republicans that say that wealthier Americans should pay more taxes are generally not the ones taht are contributing millions of dollars to superpacs. They keep the poor Republicans in line by pointing out that the other guys are killing babies. I spend far too much of my time in Kansas, and I see what’s the matter with it all too clearly. I have good friends who are very right wing, and when you get them talking honestly, it always comes down to religion or racism. Poor white people who have been convinced that the poor brown people are the cause of their misery, or middle-class white people who believe that God puts a soul in every zygote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nick-hanauer-on-the-rich-taxes-and-job-creation/622508.md?page=1)