# Nickelodeon special on gay parents: Would you let your kids watch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696 "2002-06-18T15:22:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/21 "2002-06-18T22:32:24Z")
**Jersey** - How do you know whom the program is aimed at if you haven’t seen it yourself? How can you judge the content of what you have not seen? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/22 "2002-06-18T22:35:14Z")
After submission: **MrVisible** , I like you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/23 "2002-06-18T22:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*This is not a program for young, impressionable children. > > I hope it will be the last of it on Nickelodeon because my daughter does like a few shows. I would hate to take that away from her. \*\* IMHO, a show that teaches children not to hate or ridicule people that are different from them is absolutely appropriate for them to watch. Gay children exist. They never “chose” to be the object of ridicule. Who would? They have a right to be in a learning environment in which they are not going to hear slurs on a daily basis, ensuring their low self-esteem. If watching this show teaches a child that it is wrong to judge others, not only is it a good thing, but it is promoting a good christian message. Wouldn’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/24 "2002-06-18T22:59:26Z")
I think you people are missing the point here and turning your biase onto others. You don’t want to tolerate others intolerance, fine. I see a blatant " I’m right, your wrong" attitude that you claim others have against issues like this. You refuse to respect others wishes because you would insist your own child learn something. I say go rent the movie. Teach your child to be tolerant on your own dime if it enterferes with others wishes. I fully support your attempts to teach your children tolerance. But I see here the Draconian Liberalism that has been running rampant in this country and hurting alot of the good will tolerance is trying to support. Apparently there are hundreds of thousands of people who do not want to subject their children to sex from a childrens program. If you can’t respect that what the hell gives you the right to demand it in return? Nikalodeon has every right to show what they want. And people can just change the channel if they don’t like it. I think this is an attempt for people to show thier displeasure in such programs and a notice that this, and future programs are not appreciated by many. And your attempts to label everyone who dissagrees with you on this issue “Jerry Fallwell and his ilk” ( i personally cant stand the guy) are sickening. And what is sad is you people do not see the blatant holier-than-thou bullshit you guys spout off alot of the time. You think it’s “appropriate” for children to watch. Jerry Fallwell can’t dictate what my children watch either. But you sure as hell can’t tell me what is appropriate for my child. > [@](#): > > Perhaps biggirl is right and people are just more enlightened around here. Pretty sad. Linda Elerbee, the shows host states that “The program is about tolerance … It is not about sex. It does not tell you what to think.” Teaching “tolerance” is telling people the appropriate way to think. Unless tolerance is bad and I missed it. So I would call her little statement a contradiction within itself. And BTW. It’s not just “on TV”. Its on a childrens channel. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/25 "2002-06-18T23:09:23Z")
What I said has absolutely nothing to do with tolerance or intolerance. What I said was that most Dopers know that you can’t teach someone to be homosexual. This has nothing at all to do with whether I tolerate your views on homosexuality. You can’t turn someone gay by broadcasting this program. Watching this program won’t turn you gay. Most Dopers know this. And further more, I **clearly** stated _why_ I do not like Jerry Falwell and his ilk. You’ve got it backwards **Saen**. I don’t think he’s a homosexual-hating, hypocritical (forgot that one before), meanspirited wannabe because I disagree with him. I disagree with him because he is a homosexual-hating, holier-than-thou hypocrit. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/26 "2002-06-18T23:10:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Apparently there are hundreds of thousands of people who do not want to subject their children to sex from a childrens program. If you can’t respect that what the hell gives you the right to demand it in return? I _ **sincerely** _ doubt that there will be any sex on the show at all. As Linda Elerbee states. Having not seen the program, but being familiar with Nickelodeon’s way of doing things, I’d guess that it’s saying, “hey, yeah, they live a little differently than your folks do, but they’re human too! Wow, look at that!” Also. Re: Rampant liberalism. I believe the first UU principle sums up my feeling on the subject: > [@](#): > > Respect for the dignity and self-worth of every human being. So, I respect your worth, and your dignity. I can ask for and hope that you’ll do the same. The problem I see is that, as long as the discussion of homosexuality and bisexuality is clouded by various people’s hangups about the word “sex,” then the dignity and worth of homosexual and bisexual people, and the dignity and worth of those who accept them as _people_ and not sex acts, is sincerely degraded. And I have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/27 "2002-06-18T23:17:20Z")
Gebus, will you guys slow down, I go and type up an argument only to beaten by not one but two posters. Well there’s one thing I can contribute: Isn’t Draconian Liberalism an oxymoron? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/28 "2002-06-18T23:27:05Z")
A TV show can’t make somebody be gay. But generations of TV shows and movies have portrayed gay people as evil, or pathetic, or doomed, or weak, or predatory, or desperate, or any of a thousand other negative things. And this can, indeed, help teach people to hate gays. And now a show comes along that is attempting, presumably, to tell kids that gay parents are just parents, trying to raise kids, and shouldn’t be hated and feared, and their kids shouldn’t be subjected to ridicule. So the religious zealots feel it’s necessary to bombard the studio with 50,000 emails and calls (mostly repeats, according to ), in order to protest and make sure such a portrayal of gay people never happens again. This despite the fact that Rev. Jerry Falwell was interviewed for the show. Despite the fact that the Traditional Values Coalition was asked to recommend kids to be included in interviews for the show.[(link)](http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/17/gay.parents.ap/index.html) If you want lessons on what it means to tolerate intolerance, I think we can arrange to give you some classes. ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/29 "2002-06-18T23:32:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SisterCoyote \* > \*\* > > I _ **sincerely** _ doubt that there will be any sex on the show at all. As Linda Elerbee states. > > Having not seen the program, but being familiar with Nickelodeon’s way of doing things, I’d guess that it’s saying, “hey, yeah, they live a little differently than your folks do, but they’re human too! Wow, look at that!” > > Also. Re: Rampant liberalism. I believe the first UU principle sums up my feeling on the subject: > > So, I respect your worth, and your dignity. I can ask for and hope that you’ll do the same. The problem I see is that, as long as the discussion of homosexuality and bisexuality is clouded by various people’s hangups about the word “sex,” then the dignity and worth of homosexual and bisexual people, and the dignity and worth of those who accept them as _people_ and not sex acts, is sincerely degraded. > > And I have a problem with that. \*\* That is my point. It does not matter if you have a problem with that. You have no right to tell these people their children should be subject to such things if they think it is inapropriate. That is the whole “i’m right your wrong” attitude. Like you said, they are hung up on the sex issue. Just because you do not does not mean you should not respect their opinions. That is draconian. **Stuffy** > [@](#): > > Well there’s one thing I can contribute: Isn’t Draconian Liberalism an oxymoron? not exactly, but at least you are getting what I was getting at with that title. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/30 "2002-06-18T23:36:40Z")
Um…did you miss the part where I said I respect them as **people**? I do not have to respect the _opinion_, and feel I have I right to try and educate, of a person who believes that I do not have the right to dignity and self-worth because I am a bisexual woman. I also do not have to respect the opinion of those who believe that I would make a lousy parent because I happen to be attracted to women instead of men. There is a difference between respecting a person, and objection to an opinion that reduces respect, dignity and very often self-worth for a sub-set of the population. I could respect a Klansman for being a wonderful father, for example, but object 100% to his views on the races. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/31 "2002-06-18T23:51:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Saen** _ > That is my point. It does not matter if you have a problem with that. You have no right to tell these people their children should be subject to such things if they think it is inapropriate. That is the whole “i’m right your wrong” attitude. But the people that are protesting this show have the right to tell children what they should be exposed to, based on their estimation of what’s appropriate? What’s better about their “I’m right, you’re wrong” attitude? They’re the ones trying to get the show off the air, instead of just changing the channel. Nickelodeon is presenting an option; they don’t have to watch if they don’t want. But they’re trying to take the option away from others. See? That’s draconian! ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/32 "2002-06-18T23:54:08Z")
**Saen** can you 'splain to me, how a person (and their kids) would be _subjected_ to this show w/o their consent? cause you see, every TV I’ve ever seen have these things that allow you to switch channels, turn it on/off and the like. Yes, Nickelodean is a ‘children’s tv station’, but since it runs programming 24/7, I suspect that there’s times when the liklihood of children watching is less. Plus, this is being aired after their ‘really little kids’ hours and in the ‘older kids time slot’. and, of course, they’re also advertising it, just in case you’re in the habit of plobbing down your youngster in front of Nick and leaving the room for an hour or two. ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/33 "2002-06-18T23:56:13Z")
Give me a break. Because your gay you can give me classes on what is tolerant? Man I am sick of this elitist bs that is rampant here. First of all you don’t have a friggin clue what my tolerance is on homosexuals or what I think of them. This “we”-ness is driving me away from these forums. I love good , well informed debates. But this superiority complex is making me sick to my stomach. I got news for you bub, just because you are gay gives you no special priveldges or a special insight on what being gay is all about, or give you some kind of market on tolerance. What being gay means to you is about the only thing I would think you could give me classes on on this particular issue. **SisterCoyote** You do not have a right to try to “educate” someones child if they believe different than you. Remember that is what Jerry Fallwell and those “religious zealots” try to do. And just because you think you are right and they are wrong does not give you that authority. Same goes for them. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/34 "2002-06-18T23:56:20Z")
Saen: On rereading the thread, it occurs to me that I made the remark you mentioned in your first post namely: > [@](#): > > And your attempts to label everyone who dissagrees with you on this issue “Jerry Fallwell and his ilk” ( i personally cant stand the guy) are sickening. So allow me to expand on that. There are certain organizations for whom I have absolutely no respect (note: this doesn not mean they have no right to an opinion, merely that I have no respect for said opinion). Generally speaking, when a leader espouses a message that I find morally repugnant, well I will call them on it. I happen to think Falwell message here as well as many other things he’s said (try a board search he features prominently in the Pit) is repugnant, as I also feel about anyone else who follows his particular world view. This particular statement was only applying to Falwell and his organization, as they are the ones who started the slur campaign. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/35 "2002-06-19T00:07:14Z")
**Saen** , First of all, I’m not gay. I’m bisexual. Please educate yourself on the difference. Next, to move back to the OP and away from the direction the thread is being hijacked in, you don’t want your kids to watch? Fine. TV has an off switch. And a channel change button. So does the remote control. Use them. But _do not_ deny the right to watch the show to other people, who _do_ want their children to have the opportunity to watch this show, by using “scare tactics” (or other forms of pressure) to get the network to pull the show. You want to talk Draconian? That seems pretty damn Draconian to me. And show me where I said your children **had** to watch the show, please. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/36 "2002-06-19T00:31:05Z")
Holy leaping assumptions batman! (I’m not gay, either, not that there’s anything wrong w/that). See, your option (of them not airing the show) means no one gets to watch it (or they’d have to pay to rent it etc.). My option - of them airing it - means those who want to watch, can, those who don’t can go bake cookies instead. How is that draconian (vs. no one getting to see it?) ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/37 "2002-06-19T00:33:50Z")
Ditto on what JerseyDiamond said. However in my case it’s irrelevant, as we don’t have cable. ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/38 "2002-06-19T00:37:50Z")
Wring, groups of people yell and scream about what’s on TV all the time. Did you have the same reaction when one of the big gay organizations pitched a fit about Dr. Laura’s talk show? People have the right to at least attempt to dictate to TV stations what to air. Why? Because they are the ones who have the power to buy from their advertisers … or to boycott them. Thus the stations would do well to listen when a huge group of people say “hold up, we don’t want this aired.” This goes for ANY group of people, gay, straight, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/39 "2002-06-19T01:14:56Z")
Tolerant= I won’t let my children watching this show, but if others watch the show I’ll can tolerate that. Tolerant= I will let my children watch the show, but if others don’t I can tolerate that. Intolerant= I won’t let my kids watch the show and I won’t let anyone else’s kids watch it either because I can’t tolerate that. I know. It looks simple but some people seem to need this elementary lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696/40 "2002-06-19T01:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*Tolerant= I won’t let my children watching this show, but if others watch the show I’ll can tolerate that. > > Tolerant= I will let my children watch the show, but if others don’t I can tolerate that. > > Intolerant= I won’t let my kids watch the show and I won’t let anyone else’s kids watch it either because I can’t tolerate that. > > I know. It looks simple but some people seem to need this elementary lesson. \*\* Obviously the lesson was even more important than you thought, since even the teacher forgot an important part of it: Intolerant = What you believe doesn’t fit with my worldview of how people are supposed to think. **I** can’t tolerate that. Therefore, **you** are a bigot. “Tolerance” (the sdmb religion) requires tolerance (the act) for views different from yours, even if they seem **in** tolerant to you. If you disagree, then answer this: Where did you get the authority to decide how I should think, or how WV\_Woman should raise her kids? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nickelodeon-special-on-gay-parents-would-you-let-your-kids-watch/114696.md?page=3)