# Nicknames are Forever (Early Use of F-word) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 15, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346 "2015-09-15T12:14:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/1 "2015-09-15T12:14:06Z")
In the news this morning – a set of 1310-1311 documents preserving the first verifiable use of the word “fuck” in its present context. > [@](#): > > Paul Booth, a historian at Keele University in England, found three examples dating from 1310 and 1311 of a man known in legal documents as Roger Fuckebythenavel. > > Booth said he believes Roger was not the bearer of a very unfortunate family name, but rather it was given to him derogatorily. > “This surname is presumably a nickname,” Booth told [Medievalists.net](http://Medievalists.net). "I suggest it could either mean an actual attempt at copulation by an inexperienced youth, later reported by a rejected girlfriend, or an equivalent of the word ‘dimwit,’ i.e., a man who might think that that was the correct way to go about it.” > > If Roger actually tried to do it in the navel and someone told the world about it, the name could be “fourteenth-century revenge porn,” Booth told Vice. > **[Historian Finds Oldest Use Of F-Word Hidden In Medieval Court Papers](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oldest-f-word_n_55f65a3fe4b063ecbfa4b9d6)** > > It could be "fourteenth-century revenge porn." So now, over 800 years later, the main thing we know about poor roger is that he was called “Fuckebythenavel”. It would probably be distressing to the guy. It’s like that old joke “Do they call me Roger the Bridge Builder? No. But you fuck ONE sheep…”) It’s not the first example of such an ambarassing nickname. Consider the Viking _Eystein Foul-fart_ > **[viking nicknames - Medievalists.net](https://www.medievalists.net/2014/06/viking-nicknames/viking-nicknames/)** > > Advertisement Subscribe to Medievalverse Email address First name Last name I consent to receiving your weekly newsletter via email. Subscribe Powered by EmailOctopus I also love that this piece is preceded by the following warning: > [@](#): > > (Caution: a certain four-letter word is used ahead, and used repeatedly.) Some material may be unacceptable for those mentally below 18. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/2 "2015-09-15T12:54:53Z")
That was fun. Thank you for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/3 "2015-09-15T13:27:21Z")
There is a Robot Chicken clip about Berryland ------- naaaah. Some words can’t even be referenced on the Dope. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/4 "2015-09-15T16:11:22Z")
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this out of hand. They did some weird things namewise back when. Praise-God Barebone (a 17th century member of Parliment) had a brother, Nicholas If-Jesus-Christ-Had-Not-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned Barebon. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/5 "2015-09-15T16:24:30Z")
It almost sounds like it could originate from a place name; Cardiff-By-The-Sea, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Fucke-by-the-Navel, etc. Whether there was a body of water in England in the 14th century known as the Navel is an important question here. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/6 "2015-09-15T16:28:46Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this out of hand. They did some weird things namewise back when. Praise-God Barebone (a 17th century member of Parliment) had a brother, Nicholas If-Jesus-Christ-Had-Not-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned Barebon. > > Seriously. And we have **Hal-Who-Leaves-His-Work-Computer-Unlocked.** ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/7 "2015-09-16T00:45:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And we have **Hal-Who-Leaves-His-Work-Computer-Unlocked.** Ba-a-a-a-ah! ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/8 "2015-09-16T01:12:29Z")
Very cool. The news reports have led me to learn more about the deeper origins of the word. If you go back to Proto-Indo-European, “fuck” comes from the same root as the Latin word which gives us “pugilist” (and Romancd language words for “fist”) – both orginally meant “to hit repeatedly.” ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/9 "2015-09-16T02:51:11Z")
“But you fuck one navel…” The Vikings and Angles/Saxons loved semi-insulting nicknames. Ivar the Boneless, Æthelred the Unready. Other cultures too: Constantine the Dung-Christened, Justinian the Slit-Nosed, Alfonso the Slobberer. > [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this out of hand. They did some weird things namewise back when. Praise-God Barebone (a 17th century member of Parliment) had a brother, Nicholas If-Jesus-Christ-Had-Not-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned Barebon. > > Seriously. Pratchett’s/Gaiman’s _Good Omens_ had “Thou-Shalt-Not-Commit-Adultery Pulsifer.” It was a lot later, about 1676, but one of my favorite swears of antiquity is supposedly by Cossack Ivan Sirko, who replied to the Ottoman sultan’s demands to submit: > [@](#): > > ``` > Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan! > > O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are you, that can't slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil excretes, and your army eats. You will not, you son of a bitch, make subjects of Christian sons; we've no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, fuck your mother. > > You Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw your own mother! > > So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse! > > - Koshovyi Otaman Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/10 "2015-09-16T04:10:42Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > “But you fuck one navel…” > > The Vikings and Angles/Saxons loved semi-insulting nicknames. Ivar the Boneless, Æthelred the Unready… Aethelred’s failing wasn’t in being inadequately prepared; his soubriquet was a mistranslation of _unræd_, or bad-counsel: Æðelræd Unræd pretty much means Aethelred the Ill-Advised. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-are-forever-early-use-of-f-word/731346/11 "2015-09-16T22:36:43Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Aethelred’s failing wasn’t in being inadequately prepared; his soubriquet was a mistranslation of _unræd_, or bad-counsel: Æðelræd Unræd pretty much means Aethelred the Ill-Advised. Which is funny because it’s punny: Aethelred means “noble counsel”, or more prosaically, “good advice”. So his name is “Good advice, bad advice”.