# Nietschze: The Anti-American Philosophy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733 "2010-02-20T04:20:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/21 "2010-02-21T21:58:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t accept that there is any such philosophy or ideology as “Americanism.” > > Neither Jefferson or Lincoln were religious by the way. Both totally rejected Christianity. Jefferson was a deits, at best, who did not believe in a god who interacted with the univers. Lincoln was highly skeptical, very critical of Christianity, and may well have been an atheist himself, though he occasionally mouthed theistic platitudes when speaking publicly. > > The founding fathers certainly didn’t believe in equality either. > > I guess you could say that certain ideologies have been present in American culture, such as it is (individualism, capitalism, free expression), but none of them are unique to America or Americans, and none of them were opposed by Nietschze. This is substantially correct, except that Jefferson did not reject the teachings of Jesus, rejecting instead Jesus’s Christhood & divinity; so it can be said he only\* mostly \*rejected Xtianity. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/22 "2010-02-27T02:18:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t accept that there is any such philosophy or ideology as “Americanism.” Well, I don’t like to make generalizations myself, but Nietzsche had no problem with making sweeping generalizations about nations and ethnicities, so I think the question is relevant to his philosophy. I’m so fascinated by this question **Curtis LeMay** , and in fact I recently commented that the one dead person I would want to have a conversation with is Nietzsche. I love Nietzsche. (Okay, this is an understatement. I own [this t-shirt](http://amorphia-apparel.com/design/copilot/) in two different colors.) I am really burning with curiosity about how he would view Americans. It’s been a few years since I’ve cracked a book, but here’s what I’m thinking. He would love the rugged individualism, love rock music (especially rock concerts) and all the sex that permeates our culture. I think it would appeal to him as an example of Dionysian hedonism. In fact, I think at first blush, our whole culture would seem like some kind of Dionysian moral relativist utopia, and he would get really excited–until he took a closer look. He would be disgusted by how fat and unhealthy we are and hate that we never get outside and take walks. He would be overwhelmed by the saturation of media and probably appalled by the concept of celebrities. I don’t know what he would make of our class stratification. I don’t believe Nietzsche ever really intended his philosophy to be mixed with government. I keep going back and forth on this one, because he identified often with oppressed people, and was more interested in what made one mentally strong than what made one politically strong. He might, _possibly_, view the conservative working class in the same way he viewed the Jews who created Christianity – as people who created a new moral reality in order to make themselves powerful. But I am confident that, if he bothered to comment on politics at all, he would have a lot of criticisms for Republicans and Democrats–in fact, now that I think about it, he would HATE the dichotomized nature of our political system. He would realize there isn’t much moral relativity here at all. He would also be really disturbed about how heavily women participate in society–in fact, it would probably force him to re-examine his whole perspective on women. I’m not arguing that he would view us favorably, but I think there would be a radical shift in his perspective. I think he would be fascinated by the concept of birth control and its impact on a woman’s ability to overcome oppression. He would hate our patriotism, and, it probably goes without saying, hate our religiosity. So in short, I think he would initially be intrigued by our way of life, but ultimately dismiss it as culturally stagnant. He would declare us as sort of the Dionysus without Apollo–no balance, no sense of aesthetic appreciation. He would lament the lack of refinement in our art, music and literature. So, yes, **Curtis** , I believe Nietzsche would hate America. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/23 "2010-02-27T02:30:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Thing is, he gave good soundbite - so the things people get out of him: “God is dead”, “I give you the Overman” "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. " are entirely devoid of their context. Nietzsche’s philosophy is a lifetimes study, preferably in the original, not something to be understood from some badly-translated quotes. Like all the myriad subtleties involved in _Übermensch_ that aren’t there in the English translations. Like this bit from [_Thus Spake Zarathustra:_](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1998/1998-h/1998-h.htm) > [@](#): > > When Zarathustra arrived at the nearest town which adjoineth the forest, he found many people assembled in the market-place; for it had been announced that a rope-dancer would give a performance. And Zarathustra spake thus unto the people: > > I TEACH YOU THE SUPERMAN. Man is something that is to be surpassed. What have ye done to surpass man? > > All beings hitherto have created something beyond themselves: and ye want to be the ebb of that great tide, and would rather go back to the beast than surpass man? > > What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just the same shall man be to the Superman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame. > > Ye have made your way from the worm to man, and much within you is still worm. Once were ye apes, and even yet man is more of an ape than any of the apes. > > Even the wisest among you is only a disharmony and hybrid of plant and phantom. But do I bid you become phantoms or plants? > > Lo, I teach you the Superman! > > The Superman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: The Superman SHALL BE the meaning of the earth! > > I conjure you, my brethren, REMAIN TRUE TO THE EARTH, and believe not those who speak unto you of superearthly hopes! Poisoners are they, whether they know it or not. > > Despisers of life are they, decaying ones and poisoned ones themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so away with them! > > Once blasphemy against God was the greatest blasphemy; but God died, and therewith also those blasphemers. To blaspheme the earth is now the dreadfulest sin, and to rate the heart of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth! > > Once the soul looked contemptuously on the body, and then that contempt was the supreme thing:—the soul wished the body meagre, ghastly, and famished. Thus it thought to escape from the body and the earth. > > Oh, that soul was itself meagre, ghastly, and famished; and cruelty was the delight of that soul! > > But ye, also, my brethren, tell me: What doth your body say about your soul? Is your soul not poverty and pollution and wretched self-complacency? > > Verily, a polluted stream is man. One must be a sea, to receive a polluted stream without becoming impure. > > Lo, I teach you the Superman: he is that sea; in him can your great contempt be submerged. > > What is the greatest thing ye can experience? It is the hour of great contempt. The hour in which even your happiness becometh loathsome unto you, and so also your reason and virtue. > > The hour when ye say: “What good is my happiness! It is poverty and pollution and wretched self-complacency. But my happiness should justify existence itself!” > > The hour when ye say: “What good is my reason! Doth it long for knowledge as the lion for his food? It is poverty and pollution and wretched self-complacency!” > > The hour when ye say: “What good is my virtue! As yet it hath not made me passionate. How weary I am of my good and my bad! It is all poverty and pollution and wretched self-complacency!” > > The hour when ye say: “What good is my justice! I do not see that I am fervour and fuel. The just, however, are fervour and fuel!” > > The hour when ye say: “What good is my pity! Is not pity the cross on which he is nailed who loveth man? But my pity is not a crucifixion.” > > Have ye ever spoken thus? Have ye ever cried thus? Ah! would that I had heard you crying thus! > > It is not your sin—it is your self-satisfaction that crieth unto heaven; your very sparingness in sin crieth unto heaven! > > Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the frenzy with which ye should be inoculated? > > Lo, I teach you the Superman: he is that lightning, he is that frenzy!— > > When Zarathustra had thus spoken, one of the people called out: “We have now heard enough of the rope-dancer; it is time now for us to see him!” And all the people laughed at Zarathustra. But the rope-dancer, who thought the words applied to him, began his performance. Reaction #1: WOW! :eek: Reaction #2: WTF?! 😕 And I doubt being able to read it in German would make any difference there. It doesn’t help that scholars are unsure as to which passages of his books were actually written by Nietzsche and which are interpolations by [his sister Elisabeth Forster-Nietzsche,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_F%C3%B6rster-Nietzsche) who was, in his last, insane years, his guardian and promoter, and after his death his de facto literary executor, and who (unlike her brother) was very anti-semitic, and an early supporter of the Nazi Party. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/24 "2010-02-27T02:34:33Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I love Nietzsche. (Okay, this is an understatement. I own [this t-shirt](http://amorphia-apparel.com/design/copilot/) in two different colors.) Nietzsche is pietzsche! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/25 "2010-02-27T02:37:04Z")
I recall a cartoon by [Gahan Wilson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gahan_wilson) (Gary Larson does it well, and Charles Addams did it first, but Gahan Wilson does it best!): A professorial-looking gentleman in tweeds is sitting at a bar next to a giant android robot. He says to the bartender, “He’s programmed to take me home the moment I start quoting Nietzsche!” ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/26 "2010-02-27T02:49:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Like this bit from [_Thus Spake Zarathustra:_](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1998/1998-h/1998-h.htm) > Reaction #1: WOW! :eek: > > Reaction #2: WTF?! 😕 Yeah, but doesn’t it make you want to just go out and kick some serious ass? > [@](#): > > It doesn’t help that scholars are unsure as to which passages of his books were actually written by Nietzsche and which are interpolations by his sister Elisabeth Forster-Nietzsche, who was, in his last, insane years, his guardian and promoter, and after his death his de facto literary executor, and who (unlike her brother) was very anti-semitic, and an early supporter of the Nazi Party. This is true, but I was generally under the impression that only impacted his later works. _Will to Power_ which was published posthumously is, as far as I understand, the only work really questioned. But from what I remember (from the Kaufman translation) it seemed pretty ideologically consistent with his earlier stuff. _rereads last sentence, just realizes she referred to anything Nietzsche as ‘ideologically consistent’ and laughs hysterically._ No, really, though, the will to power fits really well with the stuff he wrote in _The Birth of Tragedy_ about Dionysus, and with _Twilight of the Idols_ about his physical routine. It was all based in a very corporeal, physical, visceral sense of reality. Do you know which parts are most widely disputed? I’m really curious about this. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/27 "2010-02-27T02:51:16Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Do you know which parts are most widely disputed? I’m really curious about this. No; and on reflection, you’re probably right about any such controversy being limited to _Will to Power._ But I have read in several places that Nietzsche’s reputation as an antisemite\* and proto-Nazi is undeserved and probably attributable to misrepresentation by his sister. \*Nietzsche did once, after a falling-out with Wagner, write a pamphlet purporting to prove that Wagner had Jewish blood – but that was meant to satirically reprove Wagner for [**his** antisemitism,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner#Opinions_on_Jews_and_Judaism) which Nietzsche did not share. See [“Nietzsche contra Wagner.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_contra_Wagner) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/28 "2010-02-27T03:02:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No; and on reflection, you’re probably right about any such controversy being limited to _Will to Power._ But I have read in several places that Nietzsche’s reputation as an antisemite\* and proto-Nazi is undeserved and probably attributable to misrepresentation by his sister. Quoted for emphasis in case anyone missed that. Nietzsche was definitely NOT an anti-Semite. The Jews were just about the only ethnic group he could stand. Also, he hated fascism. (I wrote a paper about this… nine years ago.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/29 "2010-02-27T03:17:22Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > He would also be really disturbed about how heavily women participate in society–in fact, it would probably force him to re-examine his whole perspective on women. “Goest thou unto woman? Forget not thy whip!” – Nietzsche ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/30 "2010-02-27T05:31:18Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Nietschze’s philosophy of course touts the values of an aristocracy of the strong, pessimism, and “God Is dead” philosphy. There isn’t any “of course” about it. This is the sort of thing people who’ve never actually read Nietzsche come up with. As for the title question here, Nietzsche was aware of the existence of America. To the best of my knowledge/memory, nothing he ever wrote indicated that he had a special problem with America or the values upon which the country was founded. If Nietzsche harbored anti-American feelings he certainly didn’t devote anywhere near as much ink to the subject as he did to his criticisms of _Germany_. Some of his issues with 19th century Germany might apply just as well to the 20th-21st century US, such as excessive nationalism, conformity, and a deteriorating culture – but as **Kimstu** already mentioned, many of Nietzsche’s own values were also consistent with popular American values. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/31 "2010-02-27T12:21:41Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > There isn’t any “of course” about it. This is the sort of thing people who’ve never actually read Nietzsche come up with. > > As for the title question here, Nietzsche was aware of the existence of America. To the best of my knowledge/memory, nothing he ever wrote indicated that he had a special problem with America or the values upon which the country was founded. If Nietzsche harbored anti-American feelings he certainly didn’t devote anywhere near as much ink to the subject as he did to his criticisms of _Germany_. Some of his issues with 19th century Germany might apply just as well to the 20th-21st century US, such as excessive nationalism, conformity, and a deteriorating culture – but as **Kimstu** already mentioned, many of Nietzsche’s own values were also consistent with popular American values. Now this is where my knowledge of world history is lacking, but wasn’t the U.S. a pretty irrelevant part of the world landscape during the 1800s, when Nietzsche lived? The U.S. was hardly the superpower it is today, and the concept of ‘‘globalization’’ didn’t really exist, so I’m not surprised he didn’t say much about Americans. In today’s world, though, the U.S. is a larger part of the international dialog, and our culture and our policy has a huge impact on other countries. I am guessing Nietzsche would have more reason today to consider American culture than he would a hundred and fifty years ago. Again, I reiterate, I am ignorant of history. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/32 "2010-02-27T13:51:11Z")
Now, there’s an interesting question. Was there really any writing by outsiders about the US between Tocqueville and the 20th century? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/33 "2010-02-27T16:25:35Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Now this is where my knowledge of world history is lacking, but wasn’t the U.S. a pretty irrelevant part of the world landscape during the 1800s, when Nietzsche lived? The U.S. was hardly the superpower it is today, and the concept of ‘‘globalization’’ didn’t really exist, so I’m not surprised he didn’t say much about Americans. Neither am I, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that it’s ridiculous to call someone anti-American if they had little if anything to say against America. Nietzsche seems to have cared little about America one way or the other. I don’t think the OP is interested in a serious discussion about Nietzsche; if he were, then something like “What would Nietzsche think of the US today?” would have been a much better question. But what’s the point of asking “Was the philosophy of Friedrich Nietschze [sic] the antithesis of ‘Americanism’?” That’s a yes or no question, and neither answer would do much to improve someone’s understanding of Nietzsche’s philosophy. Frankly, the OP strikes me as someone looking for a reason to dismiss Nietzsche altogether – “Well, he was ANTI-AMERICAN, so obviously there’s nothing of value to be found in his work and anyone who thinks otherwise is a crazy immoral godless America-hater.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/34 "2010-02-27T16:28:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Outside of Wikipedia, where have you gained knowledge of Nietschze and his teachings? Second attempt to get a response: Have you actually _read_ any of his works? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/35 "2010-02-27T16:49:18Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Now, there’s an interesting question. Was there really any writing by outsiders about the US between Tocqueville and the 20th century? Sure, lots. If nothing else, read Frances Trollope’s “Domestic Manners of the Americans” for a thorough skewering of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/36 "2010-02-27T17:31:57Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Neither am I, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that it’s ridiculous to call someone anti-American if they had little if anything to say against America. Nietzsche seems to have cared little about America one way or the other. > > I don’t think the OP is interested in a serious discussion about Nietzsche; if he were, then something like “What would Nietzsche think of the US today?” would have been a much better question. But what’s the point of asking “Was the philosophy of Friedrich Nietschze [sic] the antithesis of ‘Americanism’?” That’s a yes or no question, and neither answer would do much to improve someone’s understanding of Nietzsche’s philosophy. > > Frankly, the OP strikes me as someone looking for a reason to dismiss Nietzsche altogether – “Well, he was ANTI-AMERICAN, so obviously there’s nothing of value to be found in his work and anyone who thinks otherwise is a crazy immoral godless America-hater.” I didn’t say whether Nietschze would be against American-I asked if he would be in general against American attitudes. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Second attempt to get a response: Have you actually _read_ any of his works? No. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/37 "2010-02-27T17:37:51Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I didn’t say whether Nietschze would be against American-I asked if he would be in general against American attitudes. No, you didn’t. I can scroll up and re-read your OP, you know. You asked whether Nietzsche’s philosophy was anti-American or the antithesis of “Americanism”. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/38 "2010-02-27T17:55:41Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > No, you didn’t. I can scroll up and re-read your OP, you know. You asked whether Nietzsche’s philosophy was anti-American\*\* or the antithesis of “Americanism”\*\*. In other words against general American attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/39 "2010-02-27T18:12:45Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Second attempt to get a response: Have you actually read any of his works? [/QUOTE] > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No. Then you don’t have any legitimate stance on his works, do you? What you have is yet more posturing about what someone _wrote_ about yet another Wiki article. In fact, it seems lately that _most_ of your threads here are nothing more than second-hand Wiki rants. Do you ever actually read books on the topics you post about, or is Wikipedia pretty much your sole source? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733/40 "2010-02-27T18:28:26Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Neither am I, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that it’s ridiculous to call someone anti-American if they had little if anything to say against America. Ok, I see your point. I wasn’t overly optimistic about the OP’s motive either, but I do think if we slightly tweak the question – i.e. ‘‘What Would Nietzsche Think About The Modern-Day United States?’’ we’ve got a legitimate inquiry and potential for a really interesting thread. **Curtis** , I’m curious, how do you feel about the responses here? Can you elaborate on what you understand to be key components of Nietzsche’s philosophy? How would \*you \*answer your own question? It looks like there are more than a few people here who HAVE read Nietzsche’s books, so this would be an excellent opportunity to learn. For one thing, I would take exception to the idea that Nietzsche is a ‘‘pessimist.’’ He rejected nihilism very explicitly. He sought to go beyond moral relativism and believed that simply declaring life to be meaningless and stopping there was a weak-minded thing to do. Ultimately we have to embrace the lack of ultimate truth and create our own truths. He totally believed people should stand for something, he just believed that something people stood for should be of their own making. I consider his philosophy personally very encouraging and empowering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nietschze-the-anti-american-philosophy/529733.md?page=3)