# Nifong at Bar trial
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 12, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783 "2007-06-12T23:15:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/41 "2007-06-14T17:19:55Z")
**pulls up lawn chair, opens ice chest to reveal two sixers of Duvel**
I tell you, vindictive glee beats the heck out of recreational outrage any ol’ day of the week. 🆒
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/42 "2007-06-14T17:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
If he hadn’t been agressive in pursuing the case there would have been a national hue and cry about the privileged Duke students being given preferential treatment.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve wondered about this. It’s pretty well known these days that the Duke players are innocent. Had Nifong dropped the charges early, would those guys be spending the rest of their lives fending off a hostile community?
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### Author:  [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/43 "2007-06-14T18:14:43Z")
You can be aggressive and honest at the same time. Once Nifong realized the DNA evidence did not support the accusations, he could have held a press conference and settled the whole thing. Instead, he refused to listen to ironclad alibis, made inflammatory statements, and whipped up the frenzy so he could position himself as the Hero who was going to put the Bad White Boys Away For Life.
> [@SnakesCatLady](#):
>
> From what I have read, there have been no apologies. They were “misunderstood”.
Way to stand up there and accept reponsibility, _professor._ :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/44 "2007-06-14T18:59:27Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
…If he hadn’t been agressive in pursuing the case there would have been a national hue and cry about the privileged Duke students being given preferential treatment…
[/QUOTE]
There’s a current hue and cry over a case here in the San Jose area with many parallels to the Duke incident (no apparent racial overtones, though) because the prosecutor decided not to press charges. The DA is now reviewing the case, but the biggest issue seems to be that no specific reasons were given for the decision.
It’s also unclear how much Nifong’s stupidity impacted this.
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### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/45 "2007-06-15T02:25:01Z")
Today’s hearing was absolutely brutal for Nifong - probably the worst day of his life thus far. Brad Bannon (one of the lawyers for the accused lacrosse players) offered devastating testimony detailing Nifong’s unethical and illegal actions. Marsha Goodenow (assistant DA from elsewhere in North Carolina) offered stinging testimony contrasting Nifong’s performance with that of a fair prosecutor (One comment during her testimony: “She is beating Nifong senseless!”)
Durham is a strange place, but it’s going to take more than a small miracle for Nifong to survive. Current thinking seems to be that he’s unlikely to retain his law license or his job as DA, and will do well to avoid criminal charges.
It’s something of a tossup which is stranger: That Nifong would take a false case so far, apparently with some real belief that he could make a success of it, or that a prosecution based on nothing could get as far as it did before it was finally derailed.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/46 "2007-06-15T03:04:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> While there are big weaknesses in (prosecutor) Nifong’s case, there is also a body of evidence to support his decision to take the matter to a jury. In several important areas, the full files, reviewed by The New York Times, contain evidence stronger than that highlighted by the defense.
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html)
Although, exactly what the nature of that evidence was was apparently never revealed.
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### Author:  [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/47 "2007-06-15T03:10:17Z")
[QUOTE=Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html)
Although, exactly what the nature of that evidence was was apparently never revealed.
[/QUOTE]
It was apparently never revealed to the AG, either. That is why the guys were declared innocent, instead of the AG just saying there was not enough evidence to proceed.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/48 "2007-06-15T03:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass]
Oh, no no no. I want him to live a long life, immersed in his shame and misery.
Did the Group of 88 ever apologize?
[/QUOTE]
There were a number of posters in this sacrosant Doper community that also eagerly jumped on the bandwagon of condemnation early on. Some of them have since indicated they may have been a bit hasty; others have remained silent on the point.
We can’t do much about Duke professors, but perhaps we could prod some of our own into action.
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### Author:  [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/49 "2007-06-15T04:13:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
There were a number of posters in this sacrosant Doper community that also eagerly jumped on the bandwagon of condemnation early on. Some of them have since indicated they may have been a bit hasty; others have remained silent on the point.
We can’t do much about Duke professors, but perhaps we could prod some of our own into action.
[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of people, both on this board and in real life, assumed that a DA wouldn’t lie - which this one did - and wouldn’t prosecute a case without evidence - which this one did.
That is one reason I think it is so important that the Bar get rid of this slime; they need to show the public that this type of behavior is not going to be tolerated.
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### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/50 "2007-06-15T04:18:52Z")
[QUOTE=Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html)
Although, exactly what the nature of that evidence was was apparently never revealed.
[/QUOTE]
Absolutely astonishing that Fox News gets to (correctly) taunt the New York Times for shallow, incomplete and fundamentally dishonest coverage.
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### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/51 "2007-06-15T04:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
I think a lot of people, both on this board and in real life, assumed that a DA wouldn’t lie - which this one did - and wouldn’t prosecute a case without evidence - which this one did.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. People typically allow for the possibility of small lies, but this was the Big Lie - a prosecutor repeatedly and publicly giving details of a brutal crime that in fact he had no valid reason to believe had ever been committed.
His allegations played to the sensibilities of the Group of 88 (among many others) and so got all sorts of reinforcement. Duke University gave some lip service to a presumption of innocence, but then quickly caved in the face of outcry at the horrible criminals in their midst.
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/52 "2007-06-15T05:06:20Z")
What I find telling is IIRC the absence of media crackwhore Al Sharpton in Raleigh when the nasty mess went down. Perhaps he could smell the stink of Tawana Brawley II?
That being said, if the roles were reversed, and a quartet of upstanding black students had been falsely accused of assaulting and raping a white stripper, Al and company would be calling for the prosecutor’s head on a pike.
You know, if you’re going to be a champion for justice, it’s gotta be there across the board.
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/53 "2007-06-15T05:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
From what I have read, there have been no apologies. They were “misunderstood”.
[/QUOTE]
Not just “misunderstood” – one of the assholes (or a Massachusetts running dog sympathizer, can’t recall) wrote a letter to the editor of the Boston Globe, upon the AG’s declaring the players innocent, basically saying that it was just political expediency and The Man saving those rich white boys’ asses; that the AG was suppressing evidence and, if all were known, the lacrosse players quite likely would indeed be proven guilty of a heinous attack upon a poor black woman.
It was one of those letters that drops your jaw and makes you shake your head while your eyes goggle right out of their sockets.
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/54 "2007-06-15T05:29:03Z")
[QUOTE=Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265740,00.html)
Although, exactly what the nature of that evidence was was apparently never revealed.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps it was smoke and mirrors
> [@Durham in Wonderland blog](#):
>
> An extraordinary moment in the courtroom, as Brad Bannon, from the witness stand, rebuked the continuing slanted coverage of the New York Times.
>
> Even if Nifong hadn’t made his public statements, Bannon said, he still could have responded to media–for instance, when Duff Wilson called him up on August 24 and outlined three or four major arguments for his story the next day that he and Joe Cheshire knew not to be true.
>
> Bannon relayed the news that Wilson was planning to lead off with a claim of Crystal Mangum allegedly being beaten (from the Gottlieb notes); Wilson called a few hours before the story went to print. Bannon sent Wilson a copy of the photos showing that Mangum wasn’t bruised. The news appeared to make no difference in Wilson’s story.
>
> It’s also my understanding that although Wilson claimed for his story to have reviewed the entire discovery file, he asked defense attorneys–after the story went to print–for a full copy of the discovery file, ostensibly for the purpose of “re-reviewing” it.
It does not look like the NYT coverage of this case is their shinning hour.
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### Author:  [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/55 "2007-06-15T12:52:31Z")
[QUOTE=Rick]
Perhaps it was smoke and mirrors
It does not look like the NYT coverage of this case is their shinning hour.
[/QUOTE]
The media coverage in general on this case was not the media’s shining hour - which is one reason Professor Johnson started Durham in Wonderland. The media took what Nifong spoon-fed them and ran with it.
**Danceswithcats** (I love your username!) - notorious media whore Jessie Jackson was present at the start of the festivities, when pots were being banged and lies were flying like confetti. He offered to pay Crystal Magnum’s college tuition. Interestingly enough, he hasn’t been heard from lately.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/56 "2007-06-15T15:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
I think a lot of people, both on this board and in real life, assumed that a DA wouldn’t lie - which this one did - and wouldn’t prosecute a case without evidence - which this one did.
[/QUOTE]
True.
I think, though, faced with the truth of this man’s gross misconduct, they ought to have the decency to say they themselves were wrong as well. Perhaps understandably so, but wrong just the same.
On these boards it really doesn’t matter very much, but in the case of the Group of 88 it most certainly does.
(Has anyone else been creeped out over the name this group chose? Especially given how popular the number 88 is for neo-Nazis?)
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/57 "2007-06-15T15:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
(Has anyone else been creeped out over the name this group chose? Especially given how popular the number 88 is for neo-Nazis?)
[/QUOTE]
I’m more reminded of a bunch of Japanese men with kato masks and katanas.
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### Author:  [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/58 "2007-06-15T20:18:10Z")
Nifong Resigns
In a whisper, Nifong is suggesting that it does not serve the cause of justice for Durham for him to remain as DA.
“Whatever mistakes I made in this case are my mistakes”–though not the mistakes of which the Bar has accused him.
“My community has suffered enough.” His actions in the case were "honorably intended but had unforeseen consequences.
Apologizes for his actions causing pains to the three families (as he continues to mispronounce the name of the Seligmanns).
- from **Durham in Wonderland**
I wonder if he thinks this will let him escape with his license to practice law intact? I hope not.
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### Author:  [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/59 "2007-06-15T23:18:10Z")
At least he resigned.
I have a question…if he’s disbarred in NC, what’s to stop him from moving to South Carolina and taking the bar exam there and becoming a licensed attorney again? Or can you take the bar exam in another state once you’re disbarred?
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### Author:  [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nifong-at-bar-trial/407783/60 "2007-06-16T00:20:04Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass]
I have a question…if he’s disbarred in NC, what’s to stop him from moving to South Carolina and taking the bar exam there and becoming a licensed attorney again? Or can you take the bar exam in another state once you’re disbarred?
[/QUOTE]
Admission to the Bar isn’t limited to passing the state’s exam. You have to fill out a big application and be found to be fit to practice. Generally, having been disbarred in one state will prevent admission in another state. And for states that have reciprocity (admission to one state based on prior admission to another), being disbarred in one state will lead to reciprocal disbarment in the other. That’s why disbarment is such a big deal: It is almost always the end of the lawyer’s legal career.
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