# "Ninja Death Touch" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 24, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601 "2005-11-24T16:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/21 "2005-11-26T11:11:32Z")
I’m guessing you practice a _belief system_ that includes Dim Mak, even though you can’t scientificly prove it has any validity, you have faith that it does. No matter the touch point, it is merely coincidence that someone died 7 years after a touch. Of course, if that “touch” was a hard blow to the head causing a massive head injury, leading to a persistant vegative state, ending in death 7 years later, one might say the “touch” was the cause. However, the time frame would be arbitrary. This can be proved by unasailable fact. We can respect belief systems, but not when those beliefs are dressed up as facts. We seek truth here, please don’t ask us to subjugate our search to help keep your belief system intact. We do welcome new ideas, but the onus to back up your statements is yours alone. When a statement is controversial, a link to a valid website, that shows reproducible research should accompany the original statement. One other consideration, when referring to one of Cecil’s columns, we link to it rather than quoting the entire column. Otherwise, welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Naifu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bcef8e/32.png) [@Naifu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naifu)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/22 "2005-11-26T18:23:21Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > I’m guessing you practice a _belief system_ that includes Dim Mak, even though you can’t scientificly prove it has any validity, you have faith that it does. > No matter the touch point, it is merely coincidence that someone died 7 years after a touch. Of course, if that “touch” was a hard blow to the head causing a massive head injury, leading to a persistant vegative state, ending in death 7 years later, one might say the “touch” was the cause. However, the time frame would be arbitrary. > This can be proved by unasailable fact. > > We can respect belief systems, but not when those beliefs are dressed up as facts. > We seek truth here, please don’t ask us to subjugate our search to help keep your belief system intact. > We do welcome new ideas, but the onus to back up your statements is yours alone. When a statement is controversial, a link to a valid website, that shows reproducible research should accompany the original statement. > One other consideration, when referring to one of Cecil’s columns, we link to it rather than quoting the entire column. > Otherwise, welcome. No, as I said before, I have SEEN the affects of Dim Mak. If you take your index and middle finger and jab them into the area just below the jaw, you will cause a small bump. Over the years the bump grows larger, and eventually kills the victom. Dim Mak is a real thing. I’ve been kicked in the leg by a master before, by just poking at a spot on my back, I stopped the pain signal from reaching my brain moer than 4 times. ---
**Author:** ![Naifu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bcef8e/32.png) [@Naifu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naifu)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/23 "2005-11-26T18:27:28Z")
By the way, I was only responding to the column I found. Choose not to believe Dim Mak is real, that is after all, your choice. I cannot force you to believe it truely exists. However in my oppinion, you are all idiots. You accept nothing and reject the obvious. I appreciate the discussion held here. I may be back in the future, who knows. ``` -Keiko A.k.a Naifu ``` ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/24 "2005-11-26T18:59:11Z")
I take it you’ve never gone hiking. I know this because, if you go hiking, you will end up accidentally poking yourself on tree branches every now and again. There may be a few square centimeters of my body I’ve never accidentally poked, but I would be very surprised if there were more than a few. Surely, one of those spots would have to be a Dim Mak point? And surely, walking into a tree branch would provide more force than a finger or two? And yet, I’m not dead, nor have I been hospitalized for the past seven years. So, either I’m a freak alien golem without pressure points, or I (and everyone else I know) have just been incredibly lucky to miss all of the Dim Mak points. Or, of course, the whole thing is a load of hooey. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/25 "2005-11-26T21:50:10Z")
\*\* Naifu\*\*– humans have existed for over a million years. As **Chronos** pointed out, random “pokes” in various parts of the body would inevitably kill a percentabe of Humans. So, natural selection would weed out the most vulnerable, leaving less vulnerable individuals alive to breed, reproduce, & prepetuate the species. Then, _their_ decendents would go through the same process. After a few generations, _nobody_ would have these vulnerable points. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/26 "2005-11-26T22:41:00Z")
> [@Hamilton et al (2005)](#): > > Commotio cordis is a recognised cause of sudden death in which an apparently minor blow to the chest causes ventricular fibrillation and cardiac arrest. […] The underlying biochemical and mechano-electric causes have been well documented. However, there are few reported cases where commotio cordis is implicated as the cause of death in homicide cases. […] Indeed, some fanciful speculation suggests that the legendary dim mak or “death touch” of oriental martial arts is actually a homicidal use of this phenomenon. (see [http://martialarts.jameshom.com/library/weekly/aa033102a.htm](http://martialarts.jameshom.com/library/weekly/aa033102a.htm) ) […]More recently it has a mechanical stimulation of the heart by non-penetrating, been recognised that timing of impact is also very impulse-like impact to the precordium that, through important [8]. Blows occurring during the upstroke of intrinsic cardiac mechanisms, gives rise to disturbances the T wave have been shown to induce VF, and those of cardiac rhythm of various type, duration, and severity, coinciding with the QRS complex can lead to ST elevation including sudden cardiac death, in the absence of struc- tural damage which would explain the observed effects.” (one has to imagine that martial arts experts would have to be spectacularly talented to time a blow to coincide exactly [1]. with the upstroke of the T wave!). The condition has been recognised for well over a century, with case reports in the literature from 1876 [2] Google Scholar is [excellent](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22dim+mak%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Search) for extracting truth from myth [if you trust the “study”] 😉 Nisbett et al. (2001) ([link](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=%22Rediscovering+commotio+cordis%22&btnG=Search)) suggest that, based on your definition, there are possibly other “[mechanoelectric](http://www.google.com/search?q=mechanoelectric&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)” phenomenon that have been lost to modern science due to the research having been done in german and 19/20th century works being largely unindexed. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![John\_F](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@John\_F](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_F)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/27 "2005-11-26T22:56:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I take it you’ve never gone hiking. Right …or been involved in any mild-full contact sports. Hell, having a toddler in the house should have killed 85% of us by now. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/28 "2005-11-26T23:15:31Z")
I’m pretty skeptical about this death touch idea, but I have to say the hiking argument doesn’t really tell against it. Presumably a death touch would be a complicated blow which would be difficult to replicate accidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/29 "2005-11-26T23:28:48Z")
The ninja claims seem pretty dim, mak. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/30 "2005-11-27T02:43:28Z")
> [@Naifu](#): > > However in my oppinion, you are all idiots. Let’s not call each other idiots in this forum. Civil disagreement is permitted here, but if you feel the need to hurl insults, you may do so only in the BBQ Pit forum. bibliophage moderator CCC ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/31 "2005-11-27T08:21:19Z")
> [@Naifu](#): > > You accept nothing and reject the obvious. What “obvious” “facts” are being rejected? You have made a claim, but offered no proof, no evidence to support the claim. Do you have a link to medical reports of the individuals killed using these methods? Or did they not seek medical attention for a lump growing under their jaw? Why not? Does the death occur 7 years to the second after the death touch? You say that you have seen the effects of this 7-year death touch. By that, do you mean you were actually present for the death touch itself, during all medical treatment in which doctors were unable to find any explanation for the lump growing under the victim’s jaw, and the subsequent death of the victim? Or do you mean you merely saw a Dim Mak practitioner cause a bump by jabbing someone with two fingers, and were told what the results would be? What are the name(s) of the victim(s)? What doctors/hospitals did they go to? When and where did they die? ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/32 "2005-11-27T09:08:21Z")
> [@Naifu](#): > > If you take your index and middle finger and jab them into the area just below the jaw, you will cause a small bump. Over the years the bump grows larger, and eventually kills the victom. O.K. Now I’ve actually heard this claim before- nearly seven years ago in fact. Being the good skeptic that I am, I did jab my index and middle finger into the area just below my jaw- and _NOTHING_ happened!!! I was fine! I’m still fine! Nothing ever happened!!! Here it is, six years three hundred sixty-four days eleven hours fifty-nine minutes and fifty-three seconds later and NOTHING EVER JOIp’ fw epjisdghr biktrj,fgmn b/’\ **Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/33 "2005-11-27T10:14:08Z") > [@Naifu](#): > > I may be back in the future, who knows. I predict you will, in seven years. We’ve touched you now, and you’ll never escape. [Just picturing Naifu playing _Quake IX_ in the winter of 2012 suddenly tensing up and with shaking fingers not fully under conscious control typing “[boards.straightdope.com](http://boards.straightdope.com)”, getting a “not found” error and relaxing as the spell is broken] ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/34 "2005-11-28T22:32:30Z")
**Naifu** , you’ve presented an interesting story. You have apparently witnessed “Ninja Death Touch” many times. Very well, if you want this to be accepted as fact, please present a list of some people who have done this and, more importantly, the names of their victims, and the time and place these killings took place. We can at least use that as a starting point to investigate news stories to corroborate your data. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/35 "2005-11-28T23:50:27Z")
I like my Dim Mak between the hours of 8 P.M. and 10 P.M., thanks. 10 A.M. - 12P.M. only if you use your teeth. /imagines receiving personal instruction from a master of the art 😃 > [@Mind Manipulation:Ancient and Modern Ninja Techniques by Haha Lung](#): > > Belief in this dreaded “death touch” (dim-mak) was first promoted by the moshuh nanren “ninja” of China. The original art of dim-mak killed by interrupting the flow of a victim’s chi (the body’s vital energy). When using dim-mak, moshuh nanren targeted the victim’s most vulnerable body spots during that victim’s most vulnerable time of the day > [@The Dragon and the Tiger: The Birth of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do](#): > > The system of Dim Mak utilizes a timetable to determine which points on the body are vulnerable at a certain time of day. The timetable is divided into twelve two-hour periods, and a strong attack to certain points at these times of day can cause death. This chart will never be proven by the general readers simply because they lack the other knowledge to make the art complete; the missing links are technique, internal strength, and personal instruction from a master of the art. Listed below are the times of day and the corresponding areas of attack: > > ```auto > > 12 noon-2 P.M. Wrist area where pulse is felt > 2 P.M.-4 P.M. Sternum > 6 P.M.-8 P.M. Inner thigh > 8 P.M.-10 P.M. Between thighs and behind scrotum > 10 P.M.-12 A.M. Bottoms of the soles > 12 A.M.-2 A.M. Beneath nostrils > 2 A.M.-4 A.M. Bridge of the nose > 4 A.M.-6 A.M. Crown of the head > 6 A.M.-8 A.M. Underneath the jawbone > 8 A.M.-10 A.M. Temples > 10 A.M.-12 P.M. Above the nipples > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/36 "2005-11-29T00:26:06Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > Can Dim Mak cure my migraines? What if the practitioner hits the wrong spot. Might that kill me seven years later instead? essssssssssssssssKIAIAAAAAAA!!! \ (pause) “Whoops.” “Whoops? Whoops what? Did you do it?” “Oh…yeah, I did it. I sure did do it.” “Are my headaches going to go away?” “Oh. Oh, yes. Very definitely yes.” ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/37 "2005-11-29T16:11:35Z")
I’ll miss li’l **Naifu.** No posts outside of this thread, and none in three days. Jesus, I hope her seven years didn’t just run out. ---
**Author:** ![Aceospades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Aceospades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aceospades)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/38 "2005-11-29T16:39:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, either I’m a freak alien golem without pressure points, You should have used a different example, since I believe you actually are a freak alien golem 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/39 "2005-11-29T16:51:25Z")
> [@Aceospades](#): > > You should have used a different example, since I believe you actually are a freak alien golem 🙂 Such unkind words! They prefer to be called “differently-abled extraterrestrial clay-based Jewish-Americans”. 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601/40 "2005-11-29T17:52:05Z")
Let me try. Naifu, Dim mak and Jilad at Tanagra. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ninja-death-touch/332601.md?page=3)