# "Nirvana made alt rock popular". Historical revisionism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460 "2014-09-04T09:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/41 "2014-09-04T17:12:48Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Of course. I’ve said so twice now. > > Also, I’m pretty sure that using the phrase “you DO realize…” pretty much negates one’s ability to bitch about “snark” 😃 Yeah, but you started out with “Sure, you were”, which implies you think the poster was full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/42 "2014-09-04T17:16:21Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Yeah, but you started out with “Sure, you were”, which implies you think the poster was full of shit. I edited to address this. It was unfortunately wording on my part or poor punctuation or whatever. I meant “Sure, you were” like “Sure, let’s go to the store”. I did not mean it like “Yeah, sure you were… you’re full of shit”. I can easily see how it could have been read either way however, especially since I had previously mentioned people who claim an earlier interest in groups they had recently found out about. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/43 "2014-09-04T17:17:28Z")
Believe it or not, some of my friends in High School (1977-1981) were calling the Police and the Cars an alternative to regular rock. I did not hear it on radio or see it in print in Rolling Stone until much later, but the beginnings of the term were already being bandied about long before Nirvana and Pearl Jam. No cite, as this is purely anecdotal. Or, my post is my cite! Still, to ask someone if Nirvana made Alt Rock a household term, an answer is likely to be in the affirmative. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/44 "2014-09-04T17:18:04Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Nirvana and Pearl Jam were just the bands that had the most popular songs when the wave finally crested. Sure, these things don’t happen overnight. But if you’re going to point to one song/one band/one album, “Smells Like Teen Spirit”/Nirvana/Nevermind is a valid and (IMHO) pretty good one. It certainly felt that way to me at the time (and I had not heard of Jane’s Addiction or Alice in Chains until after Nirvana, c. early 1992. “Man in the Box” may have come out earlier, but it never even touched the Hot 100, whereas “Smells Like Teen Spirit” peaked at #6 on the Hot 100 (and the album spent two weeks at #1) and ended the year at #32 for all of 1992. You do have “Under the Bridge” coming out in the spring of 1992 doing very well for the year (#8 overall), riding the alternative wave that had broken by the end of 1991.) That said, the ground was being paved, as mentioned before, by bands like REM and perhaps U2 (if you want to lop them in), who also had great success in 1991. But it felt like bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etc., put the nails in the coffin of hair metal and brought alternative rock to the forefront of those radio stations that played modern rock music (as opposed to Top 40 dance music.) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/45 "2014-09-04T17:18:23Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I edited to address this. It was unfortunately wording on my part or poor punctuation or whatever. > > I meant “Sure, you were” like “Sure, let’s go to the store”. I did not mean it like “Yeah, sure you were… you’re full of shit”. > > I can easily see how it could have been read either way however, especially since I had previously mentioned people who claim an earlier interest in groups they had recently found out about. OK, got it. Cleared up. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/46 "2014-09-04T17:20:06Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Believe it or not, some of my friends in High School (1977-1981) were calling the Police and the Cars an alternative to regular rock. I did not hear it on radio or see it in print in Rolling Stone until much later, but the beginnings of the term were already being bandied about long before Nirvana and Pearl Jam. > > No cite, as this is purely anecdotal. Or, my post is my cite! Sure, I can’t date it that far back, but I was using the term in my peer group before the alt-rock explosion. Mostly, it described the type of music they’d play on WXRT or on the video show JBTV or in SPIN magazine. “College rock” is another term for it, but I don’t remember that particular term being used so much among my peer group, but that generally refers to same category of music. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/47 "2014-09-04T17:21:34Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I edited to address this. It was unfortunately wording on my part or poor punctuation or whatever. It took me two reads, but I figured out that you meant, “Sure, _you_ were,” and not “Sure you were :rolleyes:”. Otherwise, the rest of your paragraph doesn’t really follow. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/48 "2014-09-04T17:33:50Z")
College rock was a definite term for us. They often described it as being an alternative to the mainstream. I guess the term morphed somewhat until it actually became a genre label. The Secret Policemen’s Other Ball had musical acts that were also described as being alternative to what we were hearing on the radio. Artists like Sting and Bob Geldof were among the musical artists showcased in these odd for their time shows. Again, purely anecdotal, I couldn’t provide even a hint of a cite. . ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/49 "2014-09-04T17:36:33Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > College rock was a definite term for us. They often described it as being an alternative to the mainstream. I guess the term morphed somewhat until it actually became a genre label. > > The Secret Policemen’s Other Ball had musical acts that were also described as being alternative to what we were hearing on the radio. Artists like Sting and Bob Geldof were among the musical artists showcased in these odd for their time shows. > > Again, purely anecdotal, I couldn’t provide even a hint of a cite. Anecdotally again, I do remember being aware of something called “college rock,” but to my memory, that was a term that was being supplanted by “alternative” come the late 80s. When I think “college rock” I think more like up-to-mid-80s alternative rock, then came alternative, and then the term morphed to indie. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/50 "2014-09-04T17:39:41Z")
Sounds accurately timed to me. I’m sure someone could come up with a cite from 1879, but I’m comfortable with how we remember it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/51 "2014-09-04T17:53:50Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Have you seen the movie “The Breakfast Club”? The only one of those students who would have certainly listened to any of your bands was Allison. (Bender would have listened to metal, Claire and Andrew pop. The only one who is unpredictable is Brian - he probably listened to some pop and some alternative and some classical, and if anyone ever came over, he’d quickly hide the “wrong” music before they saw it lying around.) Yes, it was fairly easy and fairly accurate to predict what kind of music a person listened to based on their clothing choices and their social group. My memory of growing up at that time is that “The Breakfast Club” is simple-minded nonsense, and that in fact teenagers often had far more diverse musical tastes than John Hughes movies suggested they might. Nirvana was, though, on the crest of a big, big wave. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/52 "2014-09-04T18:02:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > “Man in the Box” may have come out earlier, but it never even touched the Hot 100, whereas “Smells Like Teen Spirit” peaked at #6 on the Hot 100 (and the album spent two weeks at #1) and ended the year at #32 for all of 1992. You do have “Under the Bridge” coming out in the spring of 1992 doing very well for the year (#8 overall), riding the alternative wave that had broken by the end of 1991.) It’s kind of crazy to think about how ubiquitous “Smells Like Teen Spirit” seemed at the time and how legendary it is now and yet it only reached #6 on the Billboard 200 and ended 1992 at #32. For reference, Right Said Fred’s “I’m Too Sexy” [ended the same year at #13](http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/top-100-songs-of-the-year/?year=1992). Both were released in Summer/Fall 1991. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/53 "2014-09-04T18:03:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > My memory of growing up at that time is that “The Breakfast Club” is simple-minded nonsense, and that in fact teenagers often had far more diverse musical tastes than John Hughes movies suggested they might. My memories of that time was that music actually was fairly compartmentalized and that John Hughes wasn’t really far off. There was a lot of teenage identity tied up in the type of music you liked, at least around here. Now, it didn’t mean we exclusively listened to one genre of music, but most of my friends predominantly listened to one type of music and often had very strong opinions about other types of music (for example, the “real” metal kids vs. the “hair” metal kids.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/54 "2014-09-04T18:06:42Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > It’s kind of crazy to think about how ubiquitous “Smells Like Teen Spirit” seemed at the time and how legendary it is now and yet it only reached #6 on the Billboard 200 and ended 1992 at #32. For reference, Right Said Fred’s “I’m Too Sexy” [ended the same year at #13](http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/top-100-songs-of-the-year/?year=1992). Both were released in Summer/Fall 1991. Note also how prominant Pearl Jam seemed to be around that time, too, yet I can’t find any of their songs from 1991-1995 making the top 100 of any of those years. It is strange, indeed. (ETA: Jebus. Green Jellö/Jelly’s “Three Little Pigs” even made the top 100 in 1993, on place higher than Aerosmith’s “Living on the Edge,” which also seemed to be everywhere, but not one Nirvana or Pearl Jam song. Was “Three Little Pigs” really that popular? Do most people even remember that song?) ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/55 "2014-09-04T18:35:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’ve got to say, with the exception of Depeche Mode, which is probably more notable for its longevity than for huge success. They sold out the Rose Bowl in 1988. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/56 "2014-09-04T18:48:00Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > There was a lot of alternative music around before Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but alternative hard rock was very fringe. Bands like REM and early U2 were alternative, but by no means could they be called hard rock. Thanks to Nirvana and Pearl Jam, the hard rock scene switched from hair metal to grunge/alt basically overnight. I basically agree with this. Nirvana was grunge, REM was in the southern-college-folk-rock genre; they were not originally considered to be in the same genre. That came later when people looked backwards at the trends, they both came to be seen under the umbrella of “alternative.” IMHO it’s true and accurate to say Nirvana signaled the official death of hair metal, not true or accurate that it was the first alternative act of the era with mainstream/radio/MTV success. In addition to REM/“Losing my Religion” (already discussed) Red Hot Chili Peppers broke big with “Under the Bridge” which went to #2 and was a platinum single in 1991. The video won “Viewer’s Choice” at the 1992 VMAs. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/57 "2014-09-04T19:02:21Z")
Also, looking at RIAA data: “Out of Time” - released March 12, 1991; certified 4xPlatinum June 5, 1991. “Nevermind” - released September 24, 1991; certified 4xPlatinum June 12, **1992**. Nirvana accelerated and ultimately far exceeded the REM album over the fall and winter but it took 8 months to reach the level of popularity “Out if Time” reached in 3 months. And that’s how I remember it. Nevermind came out at the beginning of the school year but it took 4-5 months until “everyone” had heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/58 "2014-09-04T19:09:31Z")
Yeah, the above posts sound about right to my memory. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/59 "2014-09-04T19:17:21Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I basically agree with this. Nirvana was grunge, REM was in the southern-college-folk-rock genre; they were not originally considered to be in the same genre. That came later when people looked backwards at the trends, they both came to be seen under the umbrella of “alternative.” Actually, I take that back. This part doesn’t quite jive with my memory. My recollections of the term “alternative” in the pre-Nirvana 90s to be a fairly broad category, including industrial, goth, non-Top 40 new wave, hard rock, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/60 "2014-09-04T19:24:15Z")
Yeah, that’s how I remember it, too. Before Grunge/Seattle Rock took the Alt/Rock crown, all sorts of Rock-ish music was being called alternative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460.md?page=4)