# "Nirvana made alt rock popular". Historical revisionism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460 "2014-09-04T09:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/141 "2014-09-10T12:22:54Z")
Are we talking about relevance on the business end or the creative end? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/142 "2014-09-10T13:21:10Z")
Foo Fighters is an interesting case. Started by Dave Grohl of Nirvana after Cobain died, he also got former Nirvana touring musician Pat Smear to join in at the start. The Wiki page for Foo Fighters calls their genre “Post Grunge,” “Alt,” and “Hard Rock” which is a pretty good descriptor. I like them because of the blend of melodic style and hard, drum driven power surges (for lack of a better term). Until I looked up this Wiki page just now, I hadn’t seen a genre label of Post Grunge. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/143 "2014-09-10T13:37:31Z")
Nickelback and Creed probably qualify, although Creed was kind of a throwback. Grunge with better songwriting and musicianship. Interestingly, looking at the album charts, the #1 rock act is Avenged Sevenfold at #10. Opeth is at #19. > **[Billboard 200](https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200/)** > > The week’s most popular albums as compiled by Luminate, based on multi-metric consumption (blending traditional album sales, track equivalent albums, and streaming equivalent albums). ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/144 "2014-09-10T13:44:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nickelback and Creed probably qualify, although Creed was kind of a throwback. Grunge with better songwriting and musicianship. > > Interestingly, looking at the album charts, the #1 rock act is Avenged Sevenfold at #10. Opeth is at #19. > > [Billboard 200™](http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200) 🆒 [Post Grunge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-grunge) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/145 "2014-09-10T13:45:43Z")
Is anyone still listening to Ska? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/146 "2014-09-10T14:12:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nickelback and Creed probably qualify, although Creed was kind of a throwback. Grunge with better songwriting and musicianship. Nah, there was a good deal of great chops in grunge bands. See Soundgarden and Alice in Chains for instance. Pearl Jam would qualify, as well. Soild songwriting as well. I certainly wouldn’t call Creed better songwriters and musicians than these bands. But my response really isn’t about Creed, but rather that people forgot just how good the musicianship in these bands was. (Especially the drummers. Matt Cameron and Jack Irons in particular.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/147 "2014-09-10T14:34:55Z")
Soundgarden certainly. Alice in Chains I haven’t heard enough of, but metalheads today seem to still like them. Pearl Jam I’ve heard some impressive stuff live, especially the long guitar solo they bust out at the end of Evenflow. Nirvana was just a mess though. So was Blind Melon. BTW, would Faith No More be considered a similar category to Soundgarden? I know Faith No More had their heyday in the late hair metal period but they seemed to still do quite well during the grunge years. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/148 "2014-09-10T14:37:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > BTW, would Faith No More be considered a similar category to Soundgarden? I know Faith No More had their heyday in the late hair metal period but they seemed to still do quite well during the grunge years. Faith No More was at their commercial peak in 1991 with “Epic,” which is very grungy. I think they qualify. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/149 "2014-09-10T14:42:05Z")
Don’t forget NIN Trent Reznor IS Nine Inch Nails ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/150 "2014-09-10T14:46:51Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Don’t forget NIN > > Trent Reznor IS Nine Inch Nails Wiki pages are interesting in this discussion. It lists genres for the acts. NIN being listed as “Industrial Metal,” and “Alternative.” Of course, you can’t take everything on a Wiki at face value, but it’s still an interesting look at the music scene we’re discussing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/151 "2014-09-10T14:48:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Soundgarden certainly. Alice in Chains I haven’t heard enough of, but metalheads today seem to still like them. Pearl Jam I’ve heard some impressive stuff live, especially the long guitar solo they bust out at the end of Evenflow. Nirvana was just a mess though. So was Blind Melon. > > BTW, would Faith No More be considered a similar category to Soundgarden? I know Faith No More had their heyday in the late hair metal period but they seemed to still do quite well during the grunge years. I think Nirvana’s musicianship was decent, and their songwriting excellent. Blind Melon I don’t really consider “grunge.” They weren’t bad musicians, but their work wasn’t really my cup of tea. Faith No More is maybe grunge-by-association, perhaps like Smashing Pumpkins, but I wouldn’t consider either of these bands “grunge.” Faith No More is more associated with metal in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/152 "2014-09-10T14:54:18Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Wiki pages are interesting in this discussion. It lists genres for the acts. NIN being listed as “Industrial Metal,” and “Alternative.” > > Of course, you can’t take everything on a Wiki at face value, but it’s still an interesting look at the music scene we’re discussing. NIN were never considered “grunge” in my circles. “Alternative,” yes. “Industrial,” yes. “Grunge,” no. I’ll go back to Faith No More. I’m not even sure they qualify as “grunge by association.” “Epic” did not sound like anything I would call “grunge.” It had elements of metal and rap and perhaps funk in it, but not really grunge. It definitely was more associated in my mind to 80s music than the grunge that was appearing at the same time I associate with 90s music. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/153 "2014-09-10T15:06:26Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Is anyone still listening to Ska? Still? Did anyone really listen to them in the first place in the US at least? I’m not trying to sound snarky when I say that. My friends and I were big fans of the English ska bands like Madness, The Specials, English Beat, The Selector, but couldn’t find anything else except from those bands. All the albums we got were imports in the special bins at the back of the record store, nothing mainstream and nothing from US bands. This was in the early '80s. (third-wave ska is what I seem to remember it being classified as, but I could be wrong about that label.) Ska started making a resurgence with No Doubt in the mid-90s, and then later with Reel Big Fish and Mighty Might Bosstones, but that was about it as far as I can remember… ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/154 "2014-09-10T15:09:23Z")
I think in my circles that grunge appreciation overlapped industrial and even some thrash, EDM, and techno. One of the more popular acts for my later party crowd was Prodigy. At that point, tho, we pretty much leave grunge in our CD players and go raving. ime, ymmv ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/155 "2014-09-10T15:13:52Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > Still? Did anyone really listen to them in the first place in the US at least? > > **I’m not trying to sound snarky when I say that.** My friends and I were big fans of the English ska bands like Madness, The Specials, English Beat, The Selector, but couldn’t find anything else except from those bands. All the albums we got were imports in the special bins at the back of the record store, nothing mainstream and nothing from US bands. This was in the early '80s. (third-wave ska is what I seem to remember it being classified as, but I could be wrong about that label.) > > Ska started making a resurgence with No Doubt in the mid-90s, and then later with Reel Big Fish and Mighty Might Bosstones, but that was about it as far as I can remember… No snark taken. My experience, too. The people I saw who LOVED Ska were sk8r boiz, all younger than us. A few acts had one song that was a good fun listen (like Squirrel Nut Zippers) but that was close to done as soon as it started. . ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/156 "2014-09-10T15:14:51Z")
I"m not very familiar with ska, but wasn’t Sugar Ray during their pop phase incorporating ska into their music? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/157 "2014-09-10T15:16:32Z")
I would say, sure. The scene had also changed from Seattle down to San Diego acts. iirc ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/158 "2014-09-10T15:38:50Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > Still? Did anyone really listen to them in the first place in the US at least? There was a third wave of ska that achieved some popularity. I was in college from '93 - ‘98 and ska was a fairly listened-to genre most of those years. I remember going to ska shows, but on “alternative” radio you’d hear more poppy or punky ska-influenced stuff than straight-ahead ska. Stuff like Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Sublime, Rancid, Reel Big Fish, (you can probably throw in No Doubt for the real poppy/dancy side of ska.) This was also around the time where there was a big swing revival (remember that? Cherry Poppin’ Daddies, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Squirrel Nut Zippers, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/159 "2014-09-10T18:45:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > NIN were never considered “grunge” in my circles. “Alternative,” yes. “Industrial,” yes. “Grunge,” no. I’ll go back to Faith No More. I’m not even sure they qualify as “grunge by association.” “Epic” did not sound like anything I would call “grunge.” It had elements of metal and rap and perhaps funk in it, but not really grunge. It definitely was more associated in my mind to 80s music than the grunge that was appearing at the same time I associate with 90s music. I think Faith No More would be along the lines of Red Hot Chili Peppers rather than the grunge bands. How about Stone Temple Pilots, why were they not considered grunge? ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460/160 "2014-09-10T18:48:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I"m not very familiar with ska, but wasn’t Sugar Ray during their pop phase incorporating ska into their music? They were not real ska, but yes. Smash Mouth was another similar type band. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nirvana-made-alt-rock-popular-historical-revisionism/697460.md?page=9)