Nirvana's "Nevermind" - why?

I love Soundgarden - I am a SG and Alice in Chains guy more than Pearl Jam or Nirvana (PJ got too…earnest for me and Nirvana was burned into my skull with no effort from me.)

But I disagree with your statement about “any Seattle band” - PJ could’ve carried the grunge scene, but SG and AiC could not have. Really based on the songs and the melodic hook. Cobain and Eddie Vedder just have a more Pop melodic sensibility and so you hear that in the hummability of their songs. Cornell and Layne Staley were more technical singers who focused on bringing the rock and hitting notes. I hear the Beatles in Nirvana, and Neil Young’s melodic stuff in PJ; I don’t hear that with SG and AiC.

Soundgarden are really complex to my ears - when they are getting things right, they leave a lot of space in the sound and just fill in the edges - Kim Thayil often does minimal stuff on guitar that just fits to fill out the sound. So they end up sounding much bigger. But if they are playing live - I haven’t seen them in person, but seen a few filmed performances - I can see where they’d be more hit-or-miss; kinda like the Rolling Stones. If the pieces don’t come together just right, you don’t get the same effect…

Well duh. :smiley:

Sunday nights at Midnight CST - the show was called 120 minutes. Of course, once grunge went mainstream, it was no longer on that show. I just wish I’d had a DVR back then. I would archive every episode of Headbanger’s Ball, 120 minutes and Unplugged.

I’d say they were neither buried (agreeing with Ludovic) nor not catchy. They were simple, clear, straight-ahead melodies that just buried themselves in your brain. It was great pop music.

I disagree with that. There was plenty going on in the US (Husker Du, Replacements, Sonic Youth, Pixies, etc) but most of it was a bit too quirky to fit the Top 40 radio in terms of production and pop structure. (R.E.M. is one that crossed over early to Top 40 from the alternative scene, and I think for the same reason.) Nevermind had elements of classic American college rock wrapped up in simple songwriting and clear production that mainstream listeners of music could get. That’s how I see it.

Looking back on it, I love that “grunge” was somehow considered a separate thing from “rock.” “Grunge” is “rock,” just different from the dominant “rock” songs of 1990.

I agree. But I also don’t remember “grunge” causing confusion as not being a form of “rock.” I think there may have been some difficulty if the taxonomy included rock and heavy metal as separate categories. In that case, I can see grunge being difficult to place (in the same way some music now known as “classic rock” might have gone in the “heavy metal” section, like, say, Led Zeppelin, which I remember could be found in either section at the music store, depending on the store and what year it was, or Guns N Roses, which I also remember being relegated to “heavy metal” in some stores.)

Threadjack: There’s a movie about the band Fishbone, a group whose music always defied categorization, and they had trouble getting signed because they’re all black, but they didn’t make “black” music. This was in the early 1980s, prior to Living Colour and all the other knockoffs of that group.

And several years ago, I read on another board about someone who was in a music store and saw a “GAY” music category. :confused: So, what does gay music sound like? Sleater-Kinney? Tchaikovsky? Judas Priest? Nope, you guessed it: Rufus Wainwright.

They were new to him!

Prior to the 10th anniversary of “120 Minutes”, a VJ asked if anyone had a tape of the first episode. Apparently, MTV didn’t. :eek:

I also knew that “120 Minutes” was on the way out when their playlist switched to awful B-sides.

I saw Fishbone in a dingy club in like 2002 and I think they were touring with one hit wonder extraordinaires Dishwalla for some reason. Strange, strange concert.

I just had a vision of an alternate 2013 in which Nirvana is on the tail end of a decade-long plunge into irrelevancy. They’ve just finished recording a fourth version of “Nevermind,” titled “Nevermind Red” because the baby is swimming in lava this time. Grohl is long gone, replaced by the drummer from Sum 41. The vision ends with Nirvana recording an ad for Axe Body Spray (“It smells like teen spirit!!”).

shudder Maybe it’s better that Cobain is dead.

(Just kidding… he would’ve quit the band long before they sold out that badly.)

“About a Girl” is the song you probably know from Bleach, although via the MTV Unplugged album.

“Negative Creep” was also on Bleach.

When I was in college I would tape 120 Minutes and watch it the next day. I still have some of those old VHS tapes.

Did that get much radio play? I don’t recall hearing it much, if at all, on radio. My guess is that the average listener will never have heard of it, while would probably recognize “About a Girl.”

If you are interested in the rise, success, and demise of Kurt Cobain, I recommend this book.

As for the OP, Nevermind was produced as a significantly more polished and refined work than was Bleach and Cobain’s ultimate goal was to be a hugely successful rock band (in spite of his distain of the limelight.

Saw them in Nov 1993 at the National Guard Armory on the campus of Drexel University in Philadelphia… it was a giant square/rectangle of a building, high ceilings, 100% concrete, perhaps the worst venue for a concert… however, one of the loudest, most energetic, and memorable concerts I ever attended.

No, you’re right. There’s a really good live version on From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah that some people may have heard even if they’re not familiar with the studio version.

I’m very surprised that Courtney Love is still alive. She must have the constitution of Keith Richards. It does sound like Frances is doing OK, although it’s probably because her mother didn’t raise her.

No doubt I’m going to incur some angry flaming for this post, but I’m going to say it nevertheless. Upon perusing this thread, I’ve noticed that one very key element to Nirvana’s success in the early 90s is quite studiously overlooked and going unmentioned. But the fact is, Nirvana’s breakthrough to the national stage was certainly helped along by one uncomfortably shameful fact: Kurt Cobain had teenybopper appeal.

Today we remember Kurt as a tragic victim of depression. But when “Nevermind” first hit the record bins, his stand-out feature was the fact that despite all the scuzzy locks of hair hanging in his face, he was still a telegenic, baby-faced teen idol with a cute grin who could just as easily have appeared on the cover of Tiger Beat magazine as on 120 Minutes. People were unaware of the depression, the drug addiction, and the general pathos of his life. What the public did see was a lead singer with angelic good looks that went a long way towards making the whole gloom ‘n’ doom cynicism palatable toward suburban, middle-class, CD-buying teens.

To be fair, Nirvana were a good (not really great) band, who did rock a little harder than Bon Jovi. And the dramatic fashion break from the teased-hair, leather vest wearing “Hair Metal” bands made them appear to many people (myself among them, admittedly) as something really new and different. But in hindsight, Nirvana (and grunge in general) really offered nothing new musically or creatively that hadn’t been done to death by 1000 bands before them. Even the mumbling depressing lyrics shtick had been pretty well covered by Michael Stipe of REM for 12 years before “Nevermind.” Their key contibution to rock was really their anti-fashion sense - the flannel shirts and scruffy facial hair - that became the new cliche for “hard rock” groups.

I would actually contend that the video for “Smells Like Teen Spirit” did more to break the band than the song itself. And you want a laugh? Try this - watch the video for Smells Like Teen Spirit back to back with the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart by Bonnie Tyler. Then just count how many visual stylistic tricks the videos have in common (tons of back-lighting, angelic lighting on the lead singer, slo-mo acrobatics, “iconic” representations of teen images meticulously deconstructed, even dry ice “smoke” and wind machines.) Nirvana’s video was supposedly a radical break with the overproduced, bombastic monstrosities of 80s MTV. But it’s kind of funny how much in common it had with a video which is often cited as one of the most over-the-top videos of the 80s.

Ultimately, Nirvana were the right band at the right time. They were a decent band, with a few well-constructed songs, and a good looking front man at a time when the record buying public was looking for a new flavor to digest. Nirvana (and grunge) really broke through to the national stage when several music industry executives gathered together in a board-room and said to each other “The whole hair metal thing from L.A. is played out. People are tired of it. What else is out there that we can sell to the teen demographic?” “Well, there’s a scene in Seattle called ‘grunge’ with a whole pre-packaged look - flannel shirts and ski caps - that we can sure base a marketing campaign around.” “In fact, we did a little research scouting of the clubs, and this one band has a lead singer who looks like he could be Shaun Cassidy in 1978! Let’s get them on board.” And so lawyers were consulted, contracts drawn up, and lo & behold – “Nevermind” hits the Billboard charts.

Dave Grohl was not the heart and soul of Nirvana by any stretch of the imagination. He was just the drummer, and that was pretty clearly Kurt’s band, Kurt’s material. I knew these guys when they lived in Olympia. Yes, I was surprised when they made it big too, but not nearly as surprised as when that Foo Fighters crap made it big.