# Nitpicky verb tense in Reagan obit **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 5, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864 "2004-06-05T22:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/1 "2004-06-05T22:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Ronald Reagan, the cheerful crusader who devoted his presidency to winning the Cold War, trying to scale back government and making people believe it was “morning again in America,” died Saturday after a long twilight struggle with Alzheimer’s disease. He was 93. > > Reagan’s body was expected to be taken to his presidential library and museum in Simi Valley, Calif., and then flown to Washington to lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda. His funeral was expected to be at the National Cathedral, an event likely to draw world leaders. The body was to be returned to California for a sunset burial at his library. > > The family had turned to making funeral arrangements, a friend of the family said. Uh, shouldn’t that be “is expected to be”… “will be returned”… “family has turned to”…? Especially fr an AP story, breaking news. If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/2 "2004-06-06T00:20:17Z")
I agree that _is_ is more natural. Maybe _was_ was used to suggest something like: “Plans may have changed since we got this information, but the last we heard, his body was to be taken to…” Maybe the reporting was done by one of my fellow Democrats who is uncertain on what the meaning of _is_ is. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/3 "2004-06-06T00:54:59Z")
News outlets frequently write obituaries in advance for very important people. I’m thinking that that’s what this was. The AP, wanting to get this over the wire quickly, ran the obit they had on file without editing it for tense first. I have no proof that this is the case, but the pre-funeral directions (lying in state, service at the National Cathedral) are standard, AFAIK. I also agree that this tense usage sounds unnatural. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/4 "2004-06-06T01:01:45Z")
[http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040605/D8313V000.html](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040605/D8313V000.html) Here’s the AP link from where I saw it on the Drudge Report. They still haven’t changed it. If there’s a change in plans for the disposition of the body – technically you read it here first. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/5 "2004-06-06T02:45:57Z")
I thought this was going to be about my pet peeve (OK, one of them) of the death headline always being in the present tense. “Reagan dies”. No, he **DIED**. He’s completed the dying process, it’s in the past. USE PAST TENSE, DAMMIT! They make it sound like dying is a hobby of his, and he might do some more dying in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/6 "2004-06-06T06:26:35Z")
**Revtim.** Good point. I saw that headline today at [CNN.com](http://CNN.com). Is ‘dies’ even a real word with regard to death? Does “die” even have a present tense without a helping verb? It’s “will die”, “going to die” or “died”, not “dies”. If you say, “I die at midnight,” isn’t that future tense? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/7 "2004-06-06T12:26:51Z")
I don’t know **Askia**. But headlines about famous people dying nearly always use “dies”. I opened a thread about that a while back, maybe there were some answers there but I don’t remember them and I cannot find the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/8 "2004-06-06T20:14:08Z")
Headlines are often present tense. It’s pretty standard and generally sounds better. Some quick recent examples: Judge takes swipe at Kobe Bryant prosecutors, Police shoot and kill shoplifter, Irate man on bulldozer wreaks havoc on Colorado town, Utah Judge Rules Polygamist Abused Girls, J-Lo Reportedly Marries Singer Marc Anthony, N.Y. Yankees Edge Texas Rangers 2-1, etc. Complaining about “dies” in a headline as if it were an isolated case of improper verb tense is pretty strange. ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/9 "2004-06-07T13:08:42Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Uh, shouldn’t that be “family has turned to”…? No. In the this case the **“had”** agrees with “… a friend said”, or should do, and so is correct. The other examples should be present, though. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/10 "2004-06-07T16:38:32Z")
> [@marky33](#): > > No. In the this case the **“had”** agrees with “… a friend said”, or should do, and so is correct. The ‘said’ is not part of the quote, it’s part of the attribution. Whether it agrees with the verb in a quote is irrelevent. Easy mistake, tho. **Dan Norder.** Agreed that the present tense usually sounds better, but “usually” is not always the case. I agree with **Revtim** that “dies” in context in a headline that says “SO-AND-SO dies” should properly read “SO-AND-SO is dead.” Writing headlines in the present tense is a century old habit to make written news sound more immediate / fresh / breaking – one pretty exlusive to print journalism. If you walk up to someone and say aloud, “Reagan dies” even seconds after it happened, it sounds wrong because it is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/11 "2004-06-07T17:21:53Z")
News headlines are always in the present tense, except when the story refers to a more distant past (“Martin knew about scandal, Tories say”). Present tense is also used in headlines in French (“Harper demande de chasser les libéraux”), on those occasions they use a complete sentence, and in Spanish (“EE.UU. prepara un funeral de estado por Reagan similar al de Kennedy”). ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/12 "2004-06-08T12:30:38Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > If you walk up to someone and say aloud, “Reagan dies” even seconds after it happened, it sounds wrong because it is wrong. Well, it’s a good thing people don’t go around talking in headlines then. But I can’t see singling out headlines about people dying to be treated differently from other headlines. ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/13 "2004-06-08T13:39:35Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > The ‘said’ is not part of the quote, it’s part of the attribution. Whether it agrees with the verb in a quote is irrelevent. Easy mistake, tho. In the OP, the “had” is reported speech, not in a direct quote, so should have to agree with the “said”, at least in English English. I’m aware that American newspaper English allows this to slide, however. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nitpicky-verb-tense-in-reagan-obit/248864/14 "2004-06-08T13:47:22Z")
> [@marky33](#): > > In the OP, the “had” is reported speech, not in a direct quote, so should have to agree with the “said”, at least in English English. I’m aware that American newspaper English allows this to slide, however. This is true in American English, too. In reported speech, the verb tenses usually go “back” one (further into the past. Present becomes past. Past becomes past perfect. Past perfect remains the same. “Can” becomes “could.” “Will” becomes “would,” etc…) e.g.: “The weather is nice,” John said. John said (that) the weather was nice. “It’s been raining all week,” I said. I said (that) it had been raining all week. “I will go to the store,” Eve said. Eve said she would go to the store. There are some exceptions, but this is the general rule governing reported speech (aka indirect speech).