# Nixon...Reagan...Bush...Who's the Evillest? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681 "2003-11-11T21:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/1 "2003-11-11T21:33:17Z")
I had been toying with the idea of a thread about the single biggest lie the Bushiviks have told (relative to Iraq, for the sake of brevity). But that is rendered moot, I think. Ramblin’ Rummy has taken the cake, has rung the bell, and brought down the curtain. Is any competition possible now, short of reading _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_ into the Congressional Record? [http://www.starbanner.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2003211090375](http://www.starbanner.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2003211090375) "In the lead-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said U.S. forces would be welcomed by the Iraqi citizenry and that Saddam Hussein had large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. Now, after both statements have been shown to be either incorrect or vastly exaggerated, Rumsfeld - with the same trademark confidence that he exuded before the war - is denying that he ever made such assertions." [znip] "For example, on Feb. 20, a month before the invasion, Rumsfeld fielded a question about whether Americans would be greeted as liberators if they invaded Iraq. “Do you expect the invasion, if it comes, to be welcomed by the majority of the civilian population of Iraq?” Jim Lehrer asked the defense secretary on PBS’ “The News Hour.” “There is no question but that they would be welcomed,” Rumsfeld replied, referring to American forces. “Go back to Afghanistan, the people were in the streets playing music, cheering, flying kites, and doing all the things that the Taliban and the al-Qaeda would not let them do.” " [znip] "But on Sept. 25, -… Rumsfeld was asked about the surging resistance. “Before the war in Iraq, you stated the case very eloquently and you said . . . they would welcome us with open arms,” Sinclair Broadcasting anchor Morris Jones said to Rumsfeld as the prelude to a question. The defense chief quickly cut him off. “Never said that,” he said. “Never did. You may remember it well, but you’re thinking of somebody else. You can’t find, anywhere, me saying anything like either of those two things you just said I said.” " Had enough? So have I, doesn’t mean they stop serving. “When testifying about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction before the House Armed Services Committee Sept. 18, 2002, Rumsfeld said Saddam “has amassed large clandestine stocks of biological weapons.” including anthrax and botulism toxin and possibly smallpox. His regime has amassed large clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX and sarin and mustard gas.” [znip] "A reporter at a Pentagon news conference asked: “In retrospect, were you a little too far-leaning in your statement that Iraq categorically had caches of weapons, of chemical and biological weapons, given what’s been found to date? You painted a picture of extensive stocks” of Iraqi mass-killing weapons. “Wait,” Rumsfeld interjected. “You go back and give me something that talks about extensive stocks. The U.N. reported extensive stocks. That is where that came from. I said what I believed to be the case, and I don’t - I’d be surprised if you found the word 'extensive.”’ Does “large” mean something other than “extensive”? So, at any rate, afraid we may have to cancel the contest. I really don’t see anyone topping this, when it comes to bald-faced, flat-footed lying through the teeth… I open the floor to other candidates, but I think we can safely move to a voice vote with considerable hope for unanimity. The 2003 Richard M. Nixon Award for Wholesale Mendacity will then be awarded to Donald Rumsfeld! (The crowd goes wild, balloons and bunting drop from the ceiling…) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/2 "2003-11-11T21:39:32Z")
I dunno, for some reason, I just keep thinking of that scene in _Animal House_ with Kevin Bacon saying “Remain calm. All is well”. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/3 "2003-11-11T21:40:00Z")
A strong contender for sure but there is still plenty of time for bigger lies to surface. I wouldn’t call it a wrap just yet. As I mentioned in another thread, I think Al Frankin is going to have enough material for a couple of sequels to “Lies and the Lying Liars Who tell Them” by the time this administration is out of office. ---
**Author:** ![NotMrKnowItAll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@NotMrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotMrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/4 "2003-11-11T21:50:37Z")
Dude, you are wrong, wrong, WRONG! We have not yet heard the worst. Just wait, remember election year is coming around. We haven’t even played the Plame Blame Game yet. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/5 "2003-11-11T22:21:07Z")
Uhhhhhh, “Plame Blame Game?” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/6 "2003-11-11T22:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > \*\*Uhhhhhh, > > “Plame Blame Game?” > > 😕 \*\* Yes, as in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=214227) or [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=213000). ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/7 "2003-11-11T22:24:18Z")
**wring** : Then there’s Bush, exhorting the troops with “Was it over when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor?” while in the background Colin’s mouth drops, and Condi says “Don’t stop him, he’s on a roll.” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/8 "2003-11-11T23:45:43Z")
In keeping with the _Animal House_ theme, there’s always the line… “Hey, you fucked up! You trusted us!” ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/9 "2003-11-12T00:36:23Z")
Well, **elucidator** , I bet if you scan the quotes in the pre-war time, you probably will never find the phrase “open arms” nor the phrase “extensive stockpile”. This is similar to his lying boss’ assertion that he never said “imminent threat” and that he never explicitly linked Iraq to al-Qaeda. In each case, the man in question is technically correct and morally bankrupt – he can claim that he never made any allusions between Afghanistan’s and Iraq’s responses (or between Sadaam and 9/11, in the other case), and that any such conclusion drawn was drawn by someone in order to discredit either Rummy or Bush. I had assumed that by now one of his faithful defenders would have dropped by to say basically the same thing but in a positive way. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/10 "2003-11-12T00:38:57Z")
How can we dance when the world keeps turning? How can we sleep while our beds are burning? I dunno. People kept saying what this administration reminds them of and that song popped into my head. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/11 "2003-11-12T00:39:39Z")
Sounds like Rummy has been taking weasling tips from Bill O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/12 "2003-11-12T01:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > “Wait,” Rumsfeld interjected. “You go back and give me something that talks about extensive stocks. The U.N. reported extensive stocks. That is where that came from. I said what I believed to be the case, and I don’t - I’d be surprised if you found the word 'extensive.”’ > Does “large” mean something other than “extensive”? This is much like the people arguing that Bush didn’t lie because he never used the phrase “imminent threat”. Because he used every other word in _Roget’s Thesaurus_ that mean the same things, but not those particular words, he wasn’t lying apparently. I guess this little sophistry technique is getting a lot of use lately in the administration. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/13 "2003-11-12T01:24:44Z")
Oh, no you don’t! You’re not dragging in that sad-ass little fib about “imminent” into these august proceedings! Why, that sorry little mogrel barely qualifies as misleading! Nosir! We’re talking pure-D, A number one Prime here! So you just take that mangy nugget of falsehood on out of here, and maybe come back when you have some premium stock. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/14 "2003-11-12T03:10:39Z")
I posted one of those “Bush Resumes” on another forum the other day (lists his military service, actions as governor of Texas, vacation time as President, etc etc etc - all documented facts). I got responses from “shut up” to calling the information “innuendo” - many people are not listening or don’t want to hear. These are “interesting” times. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/15 "2003-11-12T03:14:41Z")
I agree the Rummy lie is more blatant. I mention the “imminent” thing only because it is similar. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/16 "2003-11-12T03:14:56Z")
I’d like to put him on permanent vacation, myself. Just one more year to go… ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/17 "2003-11-12T03:28:16Z")
Time to break open good old nineteen eighty four > [@](#): > > \*\* > On the sixth day of Hate Week, after the processions, the speeches, the shouting, the singing, the banners, the posters, the films, the waxworks, the rolling of drums and squealing of trumpets, the tramp of marching feet, the grinding of the caterpillars of tanks, the roar of massed planes, the booming of guns - after six days of this, when the great orgasm was quivering to its climax and the general hatred of Eurasia hd boiled up into such delirium that if the crowd could have got their hands on the two thousand Eurasian war-criminals who were to be publicly hanged on the last day of the proceedings, they would have torn them to pieces - at just this moment it had been announced that Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceana was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally. > > There was, of course, no admission that any change had taken place.\*\* Hyperbolic maybe, but just _how_ hyperbolic depends on the extent the media picks up on Rumsfeld’s disingenuous lies. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/18 "2003-11-12T04:39:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > I think Al Frankin is going to have enough material for a couple of sequels to “Lies and the Lying Liars Who tell Them” by the time this administration is out of office. How about _Lies and the Lying Liars Who Told Them This Month_? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/19 "2003-11-12T05:52:02Z")
Tom Tomorrow’s [This Modern World: Rummy on a Roll](http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=15717) ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681/20 "2003-11-12T06:37:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \* > Time to break open good old nineteen eighty four I don’t think Orwell ever thought it might be used as a Handbook instead of a warning. Thanks you posting the reminder. We live in truly remarkable times. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nixon-reagan-bush-whos-the-evillest/212681.md?page=2)