# NJ Dem Senator Lautenberg dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 3, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036 "2013-06-03T14:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/61 "2013-06-05T23:46:19Z")
Exactly, but the health care case limited even that. Congress could pass a national seat belt law, but they wouldn’t be able to tie old road funding to it, only new road funding. The ACA ruling was actually a bonanza for strict constructionists, even though the law itself was mostly saved. We got a commerce clause limitation and a spending power limitation. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/62 "2013-06-06T03:54:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > By what reasoning? The 10th Amendment to the Bill of Rights. By your post I assume you believe there should be no state legislatures and everything should be run at the federal level. That kind of bullshit statist attitude is exactly why the 10th Amendment was written. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/63 "2013-06-06T14:48:04Z")
So how do you decide what is legitimately federal-law area and what isn’t? You gave us a list but without reasoning. We already know you’re a Tenther. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/64 "2013-06-06T14:53:27Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > We were both wrong. The election will be in October and not November. I figured he would try to hold off the election till 2014. But this way he doesn’t have to share the ballot with a strong democratic senate candidate. I can’t believe that matters to him. He’s going to win re-election, no question about it. If Booker is running for Senate on the same ballot, enough Dems will split their vote that Christie would still win easily. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/65 "2013-06-06T14:55:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So how do you decide what is legitimately federal-law area and what isn’t? You gave us a list but without reasoning. We already know you’re a Tenther. If only the Constitution had provided some mechanism for deciding this very issue… If only… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/66 "2013-06-06T15:51:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So how do you decide what is legitimately federal-law area and what isn’t? You gave us a list but without reasoning. We already know you’re a Tenther. It’s not rocket science. Congress has enumerated powers. But to keep it simple, the most frequent use of federal power is the commerce clause. If it’s not commerce, it’s not under Congress’ power to regulate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/67 "2013-06-06T16:46:52Z")
Problem with that is, \*everything \*is under the commerce clause. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/68 "2013-06-06T16:54:19Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > If only the Constitution had provided some mechanism for deciding this very issue… > > If only… I know the legislature and the executive don’t do that. I think we need a third branch to rule on the Constitutionality of these issues. Then maybe we would put some of this “illegal law” stuff to rest. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/69 "2013-06-06T23:20:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > FWIW, Christie is ducking the entire appointment issue, and has called the special election for October 16. That’s even less than 5 months until Cory Booker takes over. > > Um, it _is_ going to be him, right? Well, as a NJ democrat, I’ve got a tough choice ahead, because [Rep. Rush Holt](http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/06/us_rep_rush_holt_officially_jo.html) is running too. On one hand, Corey Booker is virtually a superhero. On the other hand, I _really_ want to be able to say [“ **MY** Senator _is_ a rocket scientist!”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Holt#Congressional_career) (For those not in Rush Holt’s district - for a long time his campaign/supports gave out bumper stickers stating “My Congressment IS a rocket scientist” because he’s a Ph.D. in Physics and worked at the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab at one point before politics. It’s always amused me. YMMV). ---
**Author:** ![Tioga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/54ee81/32.png) [@Tioga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tioga)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/70 "2013-06-07T01:27:21Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > No. > He can make a deal with the Lt-Governor, resign, then when the Lt-Governor automatically becomes acting Governor, he appoints Christie as Senator. > > That’s how it was done in Minnesota in 1976. But voters were quite upset by this, and at the next election 2 years later, he lost his bid for election to another term. It is now a moot point, but this is untrue. > [@kenner116](#): > > I didn’t expect an October special election. Thankfully, New Jersey now has absentee voting by email, which will save my county at least 30 dollars in postage between the two elections. This is untrue as well. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Problem with that is, \*everything \*is under the commerce clause. Deal with it. I want to point out that you asked pkbites a question, he politely answered it, and you were rude in your response. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/71 "2013-06-07T02:14:32Z")
> [@Tioga](#): > > It is now a moot point, but this is untrue. What is untrue? It did happen in Minnesota in 1976, so are you saying it is expressly forbidden under NJ law? > [@Tioga](#): > > I want to point out that you asked pkbites a question, he politely answered it, and you were rude in your response. Accusing someon of having a “bullshit statist attitude” is your idea of polite? ---
**Author:** ![Tioga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/54ee81/32.png) [@Tioga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tioga)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/72 "2013-06-07T03:03:15Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > What is untrue? It did happen in Minnesota in 1976, so are you saying it is expressly forbidden under NJ law? I’m sure it did happen in MN. However, NJ currently doesn’t have many restrictions as to who the Governor can appoint. Christie had every right to appoint himself if he so chose. > [@BlankSlate](#): > > Accusing someon of having a “bullshit statist attitude” is your idea of polite? Well, I AM from NJ 🙂 Seriously though, you are right. But two wrongs don’t make a right. But three rights make a left. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/73 "2013-06-07T05:03:03Z")
I’m from Texas, and hearing stuff about New Jersey makes me feel a lot better about it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/74 "2013-06-07T05:53:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Problem with that is, \*everything \*is under the commerce clause. Deal with it. That’s not true. Commerce=money, and not everything involves money. Nor can Congress create commerce to regulate it. The three decisions limiting the scope of the Commerce Clause are Lopez, Morrison, and the recent ACA case. But let’s say you were right. If everything is commerce, then Congress’ power is absolute and we have no Constitution. The Supreme Court would never allow such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/75 "2013-06-07T13:52:37Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The 10th Amendment to the Bill of Rights. > > By your post I assume you believe there should be no state legislatures and everything should be run at the federal level. That kind of bullshit statist attitude is exactly why the 10th Amendment was written. “Statist” does not imply “centralist”. The states are also states. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/76 "2013-06-07T15:17:31Z")
> [@Tioga](#): > > I want to point out that you asked pkbites a question, he politely answered it, and you were rude in your response. He in fact did not answer the question. I asked what his reasoning was for picking a few items as being obviously not a matter of federal interest, and his only reply was to spout some slogan about the Tenth Amendment. There is, as you may or may not know, an antigovernment movement politely (yes) called Tenthers, of whome he has now identified himself as an adherent, promoting the latest version of the regressively antebellum notion of this fantasy called “states’ rights”. > [@Tioga](#): > > But two wrongs don’t make a right. But three rights make a left. And two Wrights make an airplane. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/77 "2013-06-08T04:20:23Z")
The Tenthers are not a movement, it’s just a pejorative given to federalists by those who support unrestrained federal power. Might as well call those who support the right of Westboro Church to protest “Firsters”, or anti surveillance activists “Fourthers”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/78 "2013-06-08T14:57:26Z")
Maybe you haven’t heard. The Civil War is _over_. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/79 "2013-06-08T16:01:44Z")
And yet the 10th amendment wasn’t repealed. All the Civil War did as far as the relationship between the federal government and the states was incorporate the Bill of Rights against the states and empower Congress to protect civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036/80 "2013-06-09T19:40:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And yet the 10th amendment wasn’t repealed. > > All the Civil War did as far as the relationship between the federal government and the states was incorporate the Bill of Rights against the states and empower Congress to protect civil rights. No, the Reconstruction Amendments did that. What the Civil War did, generally speaking, was establish once and for all that the U.S. is a nation and not an association. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-dem-senator-lautenberg-dead/660036.md?page=5)