# NJ Gov. Christie drops opposition to same sex marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 21, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833 "2013-10-21T16:47:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/21 "2013-10-22T22:47:49Z")
When Elizabeth rose to the throne and became no longer “Princess Elizabeth”, there was a slight problem. Her Majesty’s mother was ALSO “Queen Elizabeth” (although she was not queen regnant) so she was referred to after her daughter’s coronation as the Queen Mother, which got shortened into “Queen Mum” in casual conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/22 "2013-10-22T23:01:27Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He’s an asshole and I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire. Well ok, but how much of that is just him being from NJ? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/23 "2013-10-23T01:23:46Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Well ok, but how much of that is just him being from NJ? That’s not it. I’m in NJ. There are lots of people around here that I would piss on. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/24 "2013-10-23T03:12:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He doesn’t seem to an ideologue to me, so I strongly suspect his opposition was actually based on a desire to let the voters decide Assuming “the voters” means the elected legislature, they already passed a law legalizing gay marriage. It stayed illegal because it was vetoed by … Chris Cristie. That despite the fact that the law was supported by the public by 20-30 points. So whatever his motivation, I don’t think letting the people decide really enters into it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/25 "2013-10-23T03:17:08Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > But it’s interesting (encouraging, even), nonetheless, that an outspoken conservative has the political balls to say, “My views are unchanged, but I will set them aside out of respect for the law.” He didn’t set aside his views. Because of the previous ruling his challenge would not even have delayed the start of the marriages. He dropped a meaningless challenge that he was already guaranteed to lose. It’s not a bad thing, but it doesn’t help anyone except (perhaps) Christie himself and he doesn’t deserve commendation for it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/26 "2013-10-23T11:56:41Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > He didn’t set aside his views. Well, yeah. My only point was, “Hey look, a conservative who isn’t crying and subverting the system because he didn’t get his way!” Sad when that alone sets you apart. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/27 "2013-10-23T12:16:01Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Whatever he may say in public I’m sure Christie is secretly grateful for the ruling since he can finally wash his hands of the matter. This. Who knows what he really thinks, but he clearly wants to keep his tea party credentials intact. But an appeal was pointless once the court declined to allow SSMs banned during appeal and said the appeal was already lost. I really don’t understand how the California decision could fail to apply to every state. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/28 "2013-10-23T12:28:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Are any other states going to have legal same-sex marriage as as result of state court decisions? [All of 'em practically have pending lawsuits.](http://www.marriageequality.org/lawsuits) It’s really just going to take a Loving v Virginia SCOTUS case and it’s done. Some states, [Wisconsin for instance, would arrest its citizens if they got (gay) married in another state.](http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/765.pdf) > [@](#): > > (a) Penalty for marriage outside the state to circumvent the > laws. Any person residing and intending to continue to reside in > this state who goes outside the state and there contracts a marriage > prohibited or declared void under the laws of this state. > (2) The following may be fined not more than $10,000 or > imprisoned for not more than 9 months or both: Even Scalia should have a problem with the Full Faith & Credit clause abuse (and then he’d find another way to defend his bigotry). ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/29 "2013-10-23T13:30:43Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > It’s not a bad thing, but it doesn’t help anyone except (perhaps) Christie himself and he doesn’t deserve commendation for it. Kind of like Obama on the same subject. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/30 "2013-10-23T13:31:25Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Kind of like Obama on the same subject. Yes and no. Yes in that Obama also changed his stance for political reasons, no in that the stuff Obama did actually made a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/31 "2013-10-23T13:40:18Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Some states, [Wisconsin for instance, would arrest its citizens if they got (gay) married in another state.](http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/765.pdf) > > Even Scalia should have a problem with the Full Faith & Credit clause abuse (and then he’d find another way to defend his bigotry). Where are you getting that a same-sex couple could be arrested? That language applies to marriages which are void under this section: > [@](#): > > 765.04 Marriage abroad to circumvent the laws. (1) If > any person residing and intending to continue to reside in this state > who is disabled or prohibited from contracting marriage under the > laws of this state goes into another state or country and there con- > tracts a marriage prohibited or declared void under the laws of this > state, such marriage shall be void for all purposes in this state with > the same effect as though it had been entered into in this state. > (2) Proof that a person contracting a marriage in another juris- > diction was (a) domiciled in this state within 12 months prior to > the marriage, and resumed residence in this state within 18 months > after the date of departure therefrom, or (b) at all times after depar- > ture from this state, and until returning maintained a place of resi- > dence within this state, shall be prima facie evidence that at the > time such marriage was contracted the person resided and > intended to continue to reside in this state. > (3) No marriage shall be contracted in this state by a party > residing and intending to continue to reside in another state or > jurisdiction, if such marriage would be void if contracted in such > other state or jurisdiction and every marriage celebrated in this > state in violation of this provision shall be null and void. Nothing in the statute provides that same-sex couples can’t marry. The legislature spells out who those people are in another section, and does not include SSM: > [@](#): > > 765.03  Who shall not marry; divorced persons. > (1) No marriage shall be contracted while either of the parties has a husband or wife living, nor between persons who are nearer of kin than 2nd cousins except that marriage may be contracted between first cousins where the female has attained the age of 55 years or where either party, at the time of application for a marriage license, submits an affidavit signed by a physician stating that either party is permanently sterile. Relationship under this section shall be computed by the rule of the civil law, whether the parties to the marriage are of the half or of the whole blood. A marriage may not be contracted if either party has such want of understanding as renders him or her incapable of assenting to marriage. > 765.03(2) (2) It is unlawful for any person, who is or has been a party to an action for divorce in any court in this state, or elsewhere, to marry again until 6 months after judgment of divorce is granted, and the marriage of any such person solemnized before the expiration of 6 months from the date of the granting of judgment of divorce shall be void. The only prohibition on same sex marriage appears to be the “husband and wife” requirement in the legislative intent section. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/32 "2013-10-23T13:41:59Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Assuming “the voters” means the elected legislature, they already passed a law legalizing gay marriage. It stayed illegal because it was vetoed by … Chris Cristie. That despite the fact that the law was supported by the public by 20-30 points. Huh. Does NJ have a mechanism for enacting laws by plebiscite? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/33 "2013-10-23T13:52:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where are you getting that a same-sex couple could be arrested? That language applies to marriages which are void under this section: > > Nothing in the statute provides that same-sex couples can’t marry. The legislature spells out who those people are in another section, and does not include SSM: > > The only prohibition on same sex marriage appears to be the “husband and wife” requirement in the legislative intent section. [http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29412299.html](http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29412299.html) Wisconsin gay couples who marry outside state could face penalty > [@](#): > > When Dick Myers heard that California was going to start issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, he and his partner of nearly 13 years considered traveling there to get married. > > That is until Myers and his partner, Steve Brondino, learned of an obscure state law that makes it a crime for Wisconsin residents to enter into marriage in another state if the marriage would be prohibited here. The law imposes a penalty for those who enter into a marriage that’s prohibited or declared void in Wisconsin of up to $10,000 and nine months in prison. > > David Buckel, marriage project director for Lambda Legal, said other states have similar laws, but Wisconsin’s imposes the stiffest penalties. The national group advocates for civil rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. > > Lambda Legal posted on its Web site a list of frequently asked questions for people who might be weighing a wedding in California or another country, and included on the list was a reference to the Wisconsin law. > > “We put the information out there because we’re deeply worried about same-sex couples in Wisconsin who may not know about this,” Buckel said. > > " ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/34 "2013-10-23T14:01:59Z")
Ah, I see. Has to be read with reference to the Wisconsin Constitution. You may be surprised to hear this, but that’s arguably a _good_ thing. SCOTUS doesn’t seem to be interested in deciding the SSM issue as a matter of constitutional right, but it will have no choice but to act if somebody is actually prosecuted under this statute. That’s how Loving v. Virginia made it to the top - the state wasn’t just refusing to recognize an interracial marriage, it enforced a criminal penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/35 "2013-10-23T14:05:42Z")
So some brave souls have to get married, move back to Wisconsin and get prosecuted so that there can be a test case. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/36 "2013-10-23T14:10:41Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That’s not it. I’m in NJ. There are lots of people around here that I would piss on. If I still used a sig file, I would make it this. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/37 "2013-10-23T14:24:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So some brave souls have to get married, move back to Wisconsin and get prosecuted so that there can be a test case. Yep, pretty much. Though it seems Wisconsin’s attorneys general are not keen on turning anyone into a test case as they have [yet to prosecute anyone](http://www.wisconsingazette.com/wisconsin-gaze/prisoners-of-love.html). ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/38 "2013-10-23T14:37:08Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > Yes and no. Yes in that Obama also changed his stance for political reasons, no in that the stuff Obama did actually made a difference. The first part is what I was referring to but I think it might make a difference if a popular republican goes on record being accepting of gay marriage without backlash. It might help the effort and the party. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/39 "2013-10-23T14:53:29Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > The first part is what I was referring to but I think it might make a difference if a popular republican goes on record being accepting of gay marriage without backlash. It might help the effort and the party. Except this is not what you’re saying. Christie still disagrees with marriage equality. He just knows that it’s going down by the Court not granting the stay, so he withdrew the appeal because it was futile, not because it was the right thing to do. And rather than the move being politically good for him, he just screwed himself going both ways. The Tea Party morons who control the primaries now consider him a quitter and possibly a mole for the Libr’ul Conspiracy. This might make moderates and a lot of liberals more happy with him, but moderates and liberals don’t vote in Republican primaries. He bought himself another gubernatorial term while stomping all over his Presidential ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833/40 "2013-10-23T15:00:35Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Except this is not what you’re saying. Christie still disagrees with marriage equality. Sure, just like Obama and Biden in 2008. > [@](#): > > And rather than the move being politically good for him, he just screwed himself going both ways. Maybe, maybe not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-gov-christie-drops-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/671833.md?page=3)