# NJ Senator Menendez indicted on multiple corruption charges {2023-09-22} - Convicted on all counts on July 16, 2024
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [September 22, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544 "2023-09-22T15:02:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/141 "2023-10-13T03:12:31Z")
If this war comes to America and Menendez or any other politician turns out to have taken bribes to help enable the other side, that’s what could happen.
Otherwise, I doubt they’ll charge treason. More likely bribery, FARA violation, etc.
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/142 "2023-10-13T03:29:08Z")
> **off-Topic, Hidden by What Exit?**
>
> > [@Chronos](#):
> >
> > It doesn’t take very many politicians being bought to completely explain the level of craziness we see, especially because almost all of the craziness we see comes from the same party.
>
> An explanation for the craziness I heard was that the crazies are NOT corrupt in the way most politicians are. Most Congressmen and Senators are corrupt in that they have SuperPACs that can take unlimited donations, unlike their reelection campaign which is limited in how much they can collect from a single donor ($3300/election, I think). So the typical politician will have their craziness limited by having to keep the big donors happy.
>
> The crazies represent deep red districts and don’t have to campaign for relection very hard. They can get all the donations they need from small donors over the internet and are thus not dependent on big donors. There’s nothing to keep them from being crazy.
>
> It’s not a perfect theory, of course, but political theories rarely are. As a counter-example, Lauren Boebert is a crazy but does not represent a deep red district. And she’s likely to lose her next election (almost lost the last one). But in general it works.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/143 "2023-10-13T11:58:55Z")
I would love to keep this focused on the corrupt slimeball from NJ rather than another Republican-bashing thread. I’m not a moderator, so do what you will.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/144 "2023-10-13T12:25:21Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> Being a foreign agent doesn’t equate to being a spy.
> [@Sam\_Stone](#):
>
> The correct word is ‘asset’. Menendez is allegedly an Egyptian asset, who for money will steer policy towards Egypt, given them sensitive information they want, etc.
The correct word for someone who secretly collects sensitive information about the activities of the United States and secretly reports it to Egypt is “spy.”
> **[spy](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/spy)**
>
> 1. a person who secretly collects and reports information about the activities…
> a person who secretly collects and reports information about the activities of another country or organization
No reason to get all fancy schmancy Tom Clancy about it. The common word applies.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/145 "2023-10-13T13:02:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> The correct word for someone who secretly collects sensitive information about the activities of the United States and secretly reports it to Egypt is “spy.”
It looks like this is the [allegedly sensitive information](https://www.axios.com/2023/10/12/bob-menendez-charged-foreign-agent-doj):
> [@](#):
>
> Menendez is accused of seeking and receiving non-public information from the State Department on the number and nationality of people serving at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, the indictment says.
>
> Although this information was not classified, it was deemed highly sensitive because it could pose significant operational security concerns if disclosed to a foreign government or if made public," the indictment states.
As an American taxpayer, I think the number of employees at U.S. Government facilities, whether an embassy or a CIA building, should be public information.
Nationality? I can see some security risk if, say, we have bunch of U.S.-Israeli joint citizens working at that embassy. That shouldn’t be public. But if this is just the number of Egyptian citizens, and the number of U.S. citizens, that shouldn’t be sensitive.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/146 "2023-10-13T13:04:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> The term of art is “traitor”. Shoot him after the appropriate fair trial. Then gather up some more convicted traitors and do the same.
I hope I am missing something and this is not serious. Or do we need a death penalty pro and con thread?
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/147 "2023-10-13T13:04:24Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> Nationality? I can see some security risk if, say, we have bunch of U.S.-Israeli joint citizens working at that embassy. That shouldn’t be public. But if this is just the number of Egyptian citizens, and the number of U.S. citizens, that shouldn’t be sensitive.
Super cool that that’s your opinion, no lie. But y’all telling me “spy” is the wrong word to use are just factually incorrect; and Menendez was violating the law through his actions. But I’m glad you think what he did wasn’t so bad!
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/148 "2023-10-13T13:16:22Z")
The article also mentions that:
" \*the senator disclosed “nonpublic information about the United States’s provision of military aid to Egypt” during a dinner with Hana in 2018.
- Menendez also “secretly edited and ghost-wrote” a letter “on behalf of Egypt” trying to convince other senators to release a hold on $300 million in aid to the country, per the indictment.
Neither of them sounds great. (Sorry if the formatting is kinda weird.)
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### Author:  [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/149 "2023-10-13T13:19:21Z")
Seems like a good time for the Dems to be without a Senator for a few days, what with the House being unable to vote for at least a few more days on legislation anyway.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/150 "2023-10-13T13:46:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#):
>
> I think there is widespread corruption in Washington at all levels, by both Republicans and Democrats.
Could be. But I don’t see the value in making broad allegations that have little evidence behind them, and some of your examples are quite old.
Ronald Reagan bears part of the blame for putting the widespread corruption meme out there. But there was a famous incident where one of his supporters, at a public event, too it too far, and Reagan replied something to the effect of — they really aren’t that bad. Now I can’t find it — does anyone recall what I do?
As for Menendez, I reject the idea that there is any urgency to punish him prior to charges being proven in court, should he be convicted.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/151 "2023-10-13T13:52:12Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> As for Menendez, I reject the idea that there is any urgency to punish him prior to charges being proven in court, should he be convicted.
As a resident of NJ, I don’t want my senator distracted by depositions, court filings, meetings with lawyers. He should be focused on representing us (sponsoring legislation, getting good stuff passed, keeping things running smoothly), not focused on staying out of jail.
As someone who doesn’t want a Republican-controlled senate, he’s up for reelection next year. If he steps aside now, there’s plenty of time for a primary race, and to get a nominee without a cloud of suspicion over his head.
As someone who prefers Democratic positions over Republican positions, I want to hold the Dems to high standards, so I can feel like there’s some moral high ground. It’s hard to say Santos should be kicked out without saying Menendez should be.
He should resign for the good of the country, his party, and the state he represents. He won’t, because he’s a corrupt sleaze who only cares about himself.
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### Author:  [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/152 "2023-10-13T13:56:51Z")
Is there any sign that he’s trying to use his resignation as a bargaining chip to reduce or eliminate jail time? On his part? On the government’s? Or would this be kept secret until revealed? It’s an obvious solution to a vexing problem all around.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/153 "2023-10-13T14:03:23Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> As for Menendez, I reject the idea that there is any urgency to punish him prior to charges being proven in court, should he be convicted.
“Punishment” and “expulsion” are not the same thing. The goal isn’t to punish him, the goal is to keep him from doing harm and enable someone capable of doing the job to do it.
I’m a teacher. If I’m indicted for criminal misconduct involving a student, _I should be removed from the classroom and replaced with a competent teacher immediately_. That’s not a punishment, that’s for the sake of the students.
Same thing here, only replace “students” with “citizens.”
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/154 "2023-10-13T14:20:05Z")
Let’s get rid of him now, and when he’s undoubtedly found not guilty of all of these crimes (including, maybe, protecting his wife from an investigation after she apparently killed someone with her car), he’s welcome to run again in 6 years.
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/155 "2023-10-13T14:36:58Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> As an American taxpayer, I think the number of employees at U.S. Government facilities, whether an embassy or a CIA building, should be public information.
No, just no. Why should an adversary (or friendly) know who and how many work there? “Taxpayer” is a need-to-know and security clearance secret code word? News to me. Try finding out how many nuclear warheads, types, targeting, etc… Laundry lists were classified for bases because they would reveal how many soldiers/civilians were at a base or location. Fitbit data was gleaned for routes, times, and attack info.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/156 "2023-10-13T17:30:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> I’m a teacher. If I’m indicted for criminal misconduct involving a student, _I should be removed from the classroom and replaced with a competent teacher immediately_. That’s not a punishment, that’s for the sake of the students.
>
> Same thing here, only replace “students” with “citizens.”
If it looks similar now, that’s because there’s probably no left/right dimension to the imagined charges against the teacher, and also no left/right dimension to the charges against Menendez.
Two or three years from now, when a new administration, obsessed with an imagined deep state, may have politicized the Justice Department, Democratic senators could be indicted for less plausible allegations. I then want be able to say that expelling members of congress, because of an unproven indictment, goes against American tradition – today it does.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/157 "2023-10-13T17:40:10Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> today it does.
Sort of. Either in this or other threads, the only reason why almost no one has been expelled is because they resigned when it became obvious that they were going to be expelled otherwise. So, let’s get the votes together and then Senator Slimeball can resign with dignity. Or, he could save us the trouble and resign now.
And, I don’t think a corrupt foreign agent who is a senator should keep his spot because someday the US might be some kind of fascist state with the administration using the justice department to jail its enemies. In fact, Menendez staying where he is makes that outcome more likely.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/158 "2023-10-13T17:41:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Sure looks like a pattern of favouring outside interests over those of the US.
Ah, the good ol’ tu quoque defense.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/159 "2023-10-13T17:42:27Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> Two or three years from now, when a new administration, obsessed with an imagined deep state, may have politicized the Justice Department, Democratic senators could be indicted for less plausible allegations. I then want be able to say that expelling members of congress, because of an unproven indictment, goes against American tradition – today it does.
Three things you’re unlikely to convince me of:
1. The slippery slope fallacy isn’t a fallacy.
2. We should forgo doing the right thing because some malefactor may lie about it in the future.
3. Malefactors will do the right thing if only I don’t give them precedent.
If, two or three years from now, a new administration Trumps up charges against a Democrat, I’m free _not_ to call for their ouster at that point, _because the charges are Trumped up_. I’m not somehow bound by magic ritual to call for the same consequence for every indictment, regardless of its strength.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-senator-menendez-indicted-on-multiple-corruption-charges-2023-09-22-convicted-on-all-counts-on-july-16-2024/990544/160 "2023-10-13T17:42:29Z")
@Northern_Piper is not defending Menendez in this thread.
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