# NJ Supreme court approves gay marriages **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 25, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887 "2006-10-25T20:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/1 "2006-10-25T20:14:37Z")
The NJ supreme court ruled today in a 4-3 decision that same sex couples have a constitutional right to the same benefits and protections as opposite sex couples. [http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=34362&TEMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm](http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=34362&TEMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm) Just like MA did, they’re giving the legislature 180 days to decide if that means changing the marriage laws or setting up civil unions. 2 states down, 48 to go… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Improv\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/2 "2006-10-25T20:16:47Z")
!!! AWESOME !!! That makes my day. I voted for Georgia to legalize it, but no surprise there… – IG ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/3 "2006-10-25T20:21:34Z")
I just wish they could have waited two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/4 "2006-10-25T20:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I just wish they could have waited two weeks. [/QUOTE] What’s happening in two weeks? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/5 "2006-10-25T20:24:13Z")
Woo-hoo! First time in a while I’m _proud_ to live in New Jersey! ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/6 "2006-10-25T20:27:00Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I just wish they could have waited two weeks. [/QUOTE] Yep. Couldn’t one of them have come down with “the flu” or something? At least no one is running for President. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/7 "2006-10-25T20:27:30Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] What’s happening in two weeks? [/QUOTE] Mid-term elections. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/8 "2006-10-25T20:28:10Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] What’s happening in two weeks? [/QUOTE] My brother is getting his new puppy spayed. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/9 "2006-10-25T20:31:25Z")
I’m a little confused. > **[2006 World Cup scandal inquiry to cost 3.5 mn euros - Breitbart](https://www.breitbart.com/news/2006-world-cup-scandal-inquiry-to-cost-3-5-mn-euros/)** > > Berlin (AFP) – The German FA’s (DFB) inquiry into the 2006 World Cup scandal is set to cost around 3.5 million euros ($3.83m), interim If I’m reading that right, the court said gay couples have the same rights as straight couples, but it’s up to the legislature to define how they would get those rights, whether through marriage or civil union, and they have 180 days to figure that out. So unless I’m missing something, gay marriage is not legal yet until the legislature makes it so? ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/10 "2006-10-25T20:32:12Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Woo-hoo! First time in a while I’m _proud_ to live in New Jersey! [/QUOTE] I was thinking the same thing. It won’t last, though. You know it won’t last… ---
**Author:** ![aclubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@aclubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aclubs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/11 "2006-10-25T20:35:52Z")
A link to the opinion. (Warning. 90-page PDF.) [http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/supreme/a-68-05.pdf](http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/supreme/a-68-05.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/12 "2006-10-25T20:47:42Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Mid-term elections. [/QUOTE] Oh yea those. Sorry, was a little excited and forgot about the elections for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/13 "2006-10-25T20:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] I’m a little confused. > **[2006 World Cup scandal inquiry to cost 3.5 mn euros - Breitbart](https://www.breitbart.com/news/2006-world-cup-scandal-inquiry-to-cost-3-5-mn-euros/)** > > Berlin (AFP) – The German FA’s (DFB) inquiry into the 2006 World Cup scandal is set to cost around 3.5 million euros ($3.83m), interim If I’m reading that right, the court said gay couples have the same rights as straight couples, but it’s up to the legislature to define how they would get those rights, whether through marriage or civil union, and they have 180 days to figure that out. So unless I’m missing something, gay marriage is not legal yet until the legislature makes it so? [/QUOTE] You are correct, that’s why I noted in the OP about the 180 days to decide. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/14 "2006-10-25T20:53:07Z")
I think the legislature is being given a choice between calling it “marriage” or “civil union”, and they have 180 days to decide _that_. The ruling, however, makes the status of “civil union” indistinguishable from “marriage” for all practical purposes, so far as I can tell. The remaining controversy to be argued in NJ, now, if I read things rightly, is “What’s in a name?” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/15 "2006-10-25T20:55:03Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] The remaining controversy to be argued in NJ, now, if I read things rightly, is “What’s in a name?” [/QUOTE] Well, that, or, more pessimistically, “Is there any way to push a constitutional amendment through in 180 days?” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/16 "2006-10-25T21:03:31Z")
If it’s anything like in MA, the answer is “no”. I think the realistic time estimated for a consitutional referendum here was something like a year-and-a-half to two years. I still can’t understand why our supremes even bothered with the 180-day stipulation, as there was no practical way for the legislature to deal with the matter than shrug. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/17 "2006-10-25T21:09:29Z")
Nothing about him would surprise me anymore. Well, a glimmer of common decency, but why look for the impossible? I mean, just take his stance on drugs and addiction. His ability to rationalize that double standard alone is evidence enough of the depths of his pathology. So I don’t really bother with him anymore. It’s his listeners I can’t understand. I mean, I shouldn’t expect millions of people to be just as bereft, should I? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/18 "2006-10-25T21:10:32Z")
Well crap, that was in the wrong place! ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/19 "2006-10-25T21:19:46Z")
What I thought was interesting was the partial dissent. In contrast to the usual way these things go, with the dissenters saying the same-sex couples do not have rights, the 3 judge dissent argued that the same-sex couples were entitled to full marriage, not just marriage by another name. Put another way, it was a 7-0 vote for civil unions at least, with 4 judges saying that the legislature could choose civil unions or marriage and 3 saying nothing less than full marriage. ---
**Author:** ![aclubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@aclubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aclubs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887/20 "2006-10-25T21:32:32Z")
Not only that, but it was a 7-0 vote on giving same-sex couples the equivalent marriage rights as opposite-sex couples. Only two disagreements between the majority and concurrence/dissent. From the dissent: > [@Chief Justice Poritz](#): > > I concur with the determination of the majority that “denying the rights and benefits to committed same-sex couples that are statutorily given to their heterosexual counterparts violates the equal protection guarantee of Article I, Paragraph I” of the New Jersey Constitution. I can find no principled basis, however, on which to distinguish those rights and benefits from the right to the title of marriage, and therefore dissent from the majority’s opinion insofar as it declines to recognize that right among all of the other rights and benefits that will be available to same-sex couples in the future. I dissent also from the majority’s conclusion that there is no fundamental due process right to same-sex marriage “encompassed within the concept of liberty guaranteed by Article I, Paragraph I.” The disagreements are whether there’s a right for the equivalent legal guarantees to be granted the name “marriage” and whether the right to SSM resides additionally in the due process protections. In my experience, at least, “Civil Unions” is often a term used to grant some of the incidents of marriage to same-sex couples. This decision goes far beyond any civil unions I’ve seen. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nj-supreme-court-approves-gay-marriages/377887.md?page=2)