# NK Subs Vanish--\<2X Artillery Units On Border.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [August 23, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630 "2015-08-23T19:34:43Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/1 "2015-08-23T19:34:43Z")
> **[Tension grows over 'lost' North Korean submarines](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/tension-grows-over-lost-north-korean-submarines-as-south-korea-searches-for-vessels-10468417.html)**
>
> Military officials said deployment of the submarines was the largest in the region since the Korean War
70% of North Korea’s submarine fleet can’t be found by the World.
Rapid escalation of artillery & other forces along the border.
South Korean diplomats describe the negotiations as a farce.
This is the worst it has been along the 38th in my lifetime.
Kim Un may have read the writing on the wall, decided that his regime is otherwise doomed, and decided to put everything on one roll of the dice.
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### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/2 "2015-08-23T19:45:16Z")
This shit has festered for longer than I have been alive.
Its gonna hurt when the stuff finally hits the fan.
But maybe the sooner it does the better it will be in the big picture / long run view.
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/3 "2015-08-23T19:53:17Z")
I’ve often wondered what the 1st string targets would be for NK’s submarines.
Off the top of my head, the following US bases would probably be very important in the event of a renewed Korean War:
Okinawa (would undoubtedly be a front-line base);
Diego Garcia (one of only 2 bases where B2 bombers are stationed, and probably much more useful than the one in Nebraska);
Guam (likely an important supply waypoint for US military).
Oahu, Hawaii (same as Guam).
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/4 "2015-08-23T20:04:05Z")
> [@Diceman](#):
>
> I’ve often wondered what the 1st string targets would be for NK’s submarines.
>
> Off the top of my head, the following US bases would probably be very important in the event of a renewed Korean War:
>
> Okinawa (would undoubtedly be a front-line base);
> Diego Garcia (one of only 2 bases where B2 bombers are stationed, and probably much more useful than the one in Nebraska);
> Guam (likely an important supply waypoint for US military).
> Oahu, Hawaii (same as Guam).
What, you think they’re going to sink the islands?
The NK Navy subs are vintage diesels. They are armed with torpedoes. They could possiby get a couple US vessels, after which they would be destroyed.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/5 "2015-08-23T20:42:38Z")
From WP:
> [@](#):
>
> The North Korean navy is considered a brown water navy and operates mainly within the 50 kilometer exclusion zone. The fleet consists of east and west coast squadrons, which cannot support each other in the event of war with South Korea. The limited range of most of the vessels means that even in peacetime it is virtually impossible for a ship on one coast to visit the other coast.
NorKo literally can’t get its ships from one side of the peninsula to the other. Which would not stop them from trying to sink essentially terror targets - cruise ships, large cargo vessels (especially LNG or CC) or even large yachts.
This… could get a little rough.
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### Author:  [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/6 "2015-08-23T20:52:05Z")
DPRK is a standing joke with crude weapons which it likes to blather on about.
[http://38north.org/](http://38north.org/)
> **[The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea](http://english.chosun.com/)**
>
> The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea
> **[Secret State of North Korea | FRONTLINE](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/secret-state-of-north-korea/)**
>
> FRONTLINE shines a light on the hidden world of the North Korean people.
Take a look around and see the terror DPRK instills among grown-ups
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/7 "2015-08-23T20:58:57Z")
> [@usedtobe](#):
>
> DPRK is a standing joke with crude weapons which it likes to blather on about.
> […]
> Take a look around and see the terror DPRK instills among grown-ups
500 guys with black powder pistols could create quite a bit of havoc in a US city. That NorKo is a paranoid nation with 1950s weaponry doesn’t mean they couldn’t create quite a mess, with no good way to respond as long as China doesn’t approve world actions.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/8 "2015-08-23T22:19:40Z")
nm
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### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/9 "2015-08-23T22:27:50Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#):
>
> …
>
> 70% of North Korea’s submarine fleet can’t be found by the World.
> …
Do you really think the US notifies the world about where NK’s sub fleet is?
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/10 "2015-08-23T22:56:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#):
>
> Do you really think the US notifies the world about where NK’s sub fleet is?
I’m quoting that article–don’t be abusive.
Instead, read the article, & be deconstructive, , which is more useful.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/11 "2015-08-23T23:40:35Z")
North Korea would be a good use of most of our remaining nukes. Glass the place and move on. No loss.
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### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/12 "2015-08-24T00:03:35Z")
AFAWK, the NK sub fleet is entirely diesel electric, which, while having certain advantages (extremely quiet submerged/running on electric), faces the same disadvantages of Nazi Germany’s U-Boat Fleet in the Atlantic after spring, 1943.
Sooner or later, they have to surface and run their diesels to recharge, and to replenish their air supply.
And compared to nuclear subs (who also have to surface sooner or later, or their crew starves to death), a D/E sub’s “surface requirement” is much, _much_ “sooner.”
At which point, they’re dead meat against any modern surface combatant, or aircraft-born anti-ship missile(s).
As noted above, that doesn’t mean that they can’t wreak bloody havoc with unarmed merchants and such; it is conceivably possible that, with enough cunning and patience (not to mention a dash of luck), they _could_ knock off a modern surface combatant as well.
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### Author:  [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/13 "2015-08-24T00:11:01Z")
Maybe they all sank.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/14 "2015-08-24T00:15:01Z")
Dammit, I told Kim that screen doors don’t work on submarines, but would he listen!?! Nooooo.
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### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/15 "2015-08-24T00:15:30Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#):
>
> I’m quoting that article–don’t be abusive.
> Instead, read the article, & be deconstructive, , which is more useful.
Now you’re telling me how to post?
I did read that article.
I can assure you the US is sophisticated enough to hear more underwater than you might believe. Go find a copy of “Blind Man’s Bluff” and read it.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/16 "2015-08-24T01:15:56Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> North Korea would be a good use of most of our remaining nukes. Glass the place and move on. No loss.
Thankfully the people who are charged with defending the US and South Korea do not display such ignorance. Those people are aware of a little country called the People’s Republic of China. That country would not sit idly by while your suggestion is carried out.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/17 "2015-08-24T01:20:26Z")
But how would the PRC react if Li’l Kim rattled his saber too much and a shooting war erupted?
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### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/18 "2015-08-24T01:44:46Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> But how would the PRC react if Li’l Kim rattled his saber too much and a shooting war erupted?
Apparently, China is at least a little nervous about about all this.
> **[North Korea's Nuclear Talk Is Making China Very Nervous](https://www.businessinsider.com/satellite-image-shows-one-possible-reason-why-china-is-amassing-on-north-korean-borders-2013-4)**
It’s old, but I’m sure it hasn’t changed all that much.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/19 "2015-08-24T01:46:12Z")
From the OP’s link:
> [@](#):
>
> The artillery equipment that has been moved forward will be able to fire accurately on the banks of huge loudspeakers on the South Korean side of the 4km-wide DMZ, which have been broadcasting news and music loud enough to be heard by North Korean troops at least 10 miles away.
If anyone plays loudspeakers that loud in _my_ neighborhood, I’d want to blow them away too.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nk-subs-vanish-2x-artillery-units-on-border/728630/20 "2015-08-24T01:52:52Z")
Wait a minute – is this saying that about 50 subs just vanished, as in, sank or otherwise mysteriously disappeared (e.g., due to the general decrepitude of all things North Korean)?
Or is this saying that those 50 subs left their home ports and are now on patrol, who knows where? and with what (possibly nefarious) mission?
Why are South Korea and US searching for them? Does this mean we think the second scenario is the case (that they are out on some secretive, and probably malign, mission)?
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