# No, America does not need RW civility. America needs LW vitriol. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474 "2011-01-21T17:54:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/41 "2011-01-21T22:53:49Z")
May I respectfully suggest that you are reaping what you have sown. Left-wing vitriol is exactly what has brought politics in the U.S. to where it is today. Since the days of the Johnson administration, lefties have been spewing name-calling and hatred toward anyone and everyone failing to tow the liberal line. Whether it’s \*“Fuck you, LBJ!” \*during the late sixties, to reviling people as racists for questioning the fairness or efficacy of affirmative action and/or school busing (the latter of which many blacks disliked as well), or yelling “sexist” at someone for challenging feminist claims that there is absolutely no difference between men and women apart from reproduction. The same thing is going on now with regard to homosexuality - where anyone who doesn’t instantly reverse life-long beliefs that homosexuality is bad is evil and wrong and should be reviled and insulted in the strongest way possible. “But wait,” you say. These people are in the “wrong” and therefore they deserve nothing but our scorn and hatred. Well, people on the right who object to liberal permissiveness and what is perceived as socialistic government programs think _you’re_ wrong, and they’ve begun to fight fire with fire - except for the fact that they’ve started to (to paraphrase our current president) “bring guns to the knifefight” that you guys started. I’m no happier about the state of political hatred in this country than you guys are, but you’re the ones who decided to throw polite discourse out the window and start using name-calling and hatred as tools to achieve social and political goals, and now that the other side is starting to take a page from your playbook you just can’t understand how they can be so hateful. Actions have consequences, and this country is absolutely beset by the consequences of liberal practices and tactics of the last forty years, the state of politics being one of them. If you’re looking to blame someone for the ugliness of politics in America today I suggest that you simply take a look in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/42 "2011-01-21T22:56:12Z")
I’m bit confused as to why The Million Man March, which was organized by Louis Farrakhan is considered an example of “left-wing activism”. How is Farrakhan left-wing? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/43 "2011-01-21T22:56:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How in the Hell are we gonna make shit up that is crazier than the truth? If you give me a week . . . But, that’s the beauty of it. **We don’t have to.** We just have to state the truth even more loudly and frequently and fiercely and arrogantly and smugly and judgmentally than they tell their lies. That’s how we can win. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/44 "2011-01-21T22:58:56Z")
I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/45 "2011-01-21T22:59:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If folks like Alan Grayson had won re-election based upon this strategy, you might have a point. For some reason, his ads featuring lines like “Religious fanatics try to take away our freedom, in Afghanistan, in Iran and right here in Central Florida” didn’t carry the day. In fact, he lost by 20 points. > > Have you noticed that when MoveOn was pushed to the sidelines after the 2004 election, the Democrats started winning elections? Don’t forget Jack Conway’s rather ugly attacks on Rand Paul. I’m also not sure why people want a left-wing version of the Tea Party. Tea Party nuttiness prevented the Republicans from grabbing the Senate. Why emulate losers? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/46 "2011-01-21T23:01:45Z")
Yes, what is really needed is for the American left to refrain from all the civility they have been showing for the last 10 years or so and go on the all out attack, vitriol wise. I think that will definitely endear you guys to the centrists and could quite possibly push you over the top to gaining real power in the US! You should definitely start this program immediately, since all of your restraint and bending over backwards (or forward for that matter) to the right wingers is just not getting you anywhere. Keep the faith my brethren and sistren…victory is in your grasp! -XT ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/47 "2011-01-21T23:12:46Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m bit confused as to why The Million Man March, which was organized by Louis Farrakhan is considered an example of “left-wing activism”. > > How is Farrakhan left-wing? He’s black, that’s all the Pubbies need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/48 "2011-01-21T23:38:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He’s black, that’s all the Pubbies need to know. And a foreign-sounding name. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/49 "2011-01-21T23:41:22Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He’s black, that’s all the Pubbies need to know. I thought lefties were supposed to be so smart. From the wikipedia article: > [@](#): > > **Notable speakers** > > Minister Rasul Muhammad- Master of Ceremonies > Reverend Benjamin Chavis- National Director of Million Man March- Call to Purpose > Mr. Martin Luther King III- Affirmation of our Brothers > Rosa Parks- Mothers of the Struggle Behold Thy Sons > Maya Angelou Appeal to Our Brothers > Reverend Jeremiah Wright- Prayer for Hope > Senator Aldebert Bryan- Senator, Virgin Islands > Reverend Jesse L. Jackson Sr.- National Rainbow Coalition > Minister Louis Farrakhan- The Message and Vision > Reverend Addis Daniel - The light.[21] Cornel West was also a participant in the ceremonies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/50 "2011-01-21T23:46:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m bit confused as to why The Million Man March, which was organized by Louis Farrakhan is considered an example of “left-wing activism”. > > How is Farrakhan left-wing? I dunno, but the [Million Man March](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_man_march) was not about any of the things by which we identify Farrakhan – no Islam, no Jew-hating, no Israel-hating, no infidel-hating, no whi-. . . Well, anyway, Farrakhan is part of an American radical tradition that is a branch parallel to the American left but intersecting/interacting at some points at some times, and apparently this was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/51 "2011-01-21T23:53:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno, but the [Million Man March](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_man_march) was not about any of the things by which we identify Farrakhan – no Islam, no Jew-hating, no Israel-hating, no infidel-hating, no whi-. . . Well, anyway, Farrakhan is part of an American radical tradition that is a branch parallel to the American left but intersecting/interacting at some points at some times, and apparently this was one of them. You haven’t exactly explained how a march, which deliberately excluded women from participating(though it allowed some female speakers). Also, are you saying that when one of the speakers, Gus Savage, stood up and said black people were angry that their leaders didn’t do more to fight against “Jewish influence” this wasn’t an example of “Jew-hating”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/52 "2011-01-21T23:55:39Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Liberals are smarter than conservatives, and a strategy of using simplistic slogans and moronic lies to appeal to our emotions simply won’t work as well as they do on conservatives. Sadly, our intelligence hinders our resolve We don’t need lies, and as for slogans, as we saw at the Stewart/Colbert rally in October (Hey, guys, so how’s that moderationey-civility thing workin’ out for ya, huh?), we can always do them funnier and smarter. Comparing the crowd at the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear to the crowd at any Tea Party rally . . . makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/53 "2011-01-22T00:04:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You haven’t exactly explained how a march, which deliberately excluded women from participating(though it allowed some female speakers). > > Also, are you saying that when one of the speakers, Gus Savage, stood up and said black people were angry that their leaders didn’t do more to fight against “Jewish influence” this wasn’t an example of “Jew-hating”? Read the wikipedia article, then come back and tell us there wasn’t a goodly amount of left-wing activism going on at that event. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/54 "2011-01-22T00:10:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … you’re the ones who decided to throw polite discourse out the window and start using name-calling and hatred as tools to achieve social and political goals, … Two words, “outside agitators”. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/55 "2011-01-22T00:11:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Read the wikipedia article, then come back and tell us there wasn’t a goodly amount of left-wing activism going on at that event. Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source. Also, why would I need to read the article when I watched it live on C-SPAN? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/56 "2011-01-22T00:39:31Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > But I don’t think the lesson here is “fight blind ideology with blind ideology”, but rather to combine outcome based pragmatism with unabashed ideological movement and passionate salesmanship of the moral bases for that ideology. Yes. The best – and preferred, for all our sakes – strategy is as you (and Waldman) say. But, by my lights, Democrats (or liberals, or progressives, or whatever) are hampered by not having such an ideology…or, perhaps, not putting it forward in strident enough fashion (which is how I interpret the OP). No matter how good individual policy initiatives are (HCR, financial reform, environmental issues, etc.), their success – when they do succeed, of course – is either ignored, distorted, or full-on demonized by conservative talking heads. That changes (has changed) the political landscape, shifting the “what’s possible” towards the opposition. Honestly, concerning the general masses, I see a relatively insignificant amount of “true believer” thinking on the left; whereas it seems to me to be a near-necessary trait for those on the right. And over the mid/long term, the left will lose because of it, no matter how well they do in the short term. If only Democrats has some balls. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/57 "2011-01-22T01:09:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > May I respectfully suggest that you are reaping what you have sown. I know, **SA** , I do. I should have been the kind of person the Dems would desperately try to recruit, but their constant stream fo bullshit is amazing. Frankly, I cannot actually think of anything leftists haven’t done in recent years, including compeltely making things up, down to vote fraud and intimidation and covering for both, but never answer for either. What kills it, however, is that every six months or so I see some prominent leftist (or **BG** , in this case), talk about how they have to be “nasty like the Republicans.” Dude, you cannot get any nastier. I can onyl assume they just ignore all their own planks in order to take out a few motes in the naighbor’s eye. Like **BG** does every day, basically. Y’know guys, I don’t hate you. Rush Limbaugh is well paid to tweak your nose, and he does it well. Deal with it. Your hands are a dirty as they come, and **xenophon41** ’s complete hash of history is one of the big reasons why. When you ignore any history which is inconvenient to you, why _not_ believe your enemies are compelte demamgogic monsters slavering with evil, while you are these perfect supermen whose sole flaw is being too brilliant and too willing to compromise? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/58 "2011-01-22T01:38:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I rest my case. Oh, thank you, Jesus! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/59 "2011-01-22T02:02:48Z")
The whole “lefties are just as bad, or worse” thing falls apart when you remember that the Bush administration manipulated the nation into a war that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/60 "2011-01-22T02:17:05Z")
It’s beginning to _reek_ of projection in here. It almost makes me want to go back into **Bricker** ’s “apologize to rightwingers” thread just to clear my sinuses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474.md?page=4)