# No, America does not need RW civility. America needs LW vitriol. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474 "2011-01-21T17:54:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/141 "2011-01-23T20:24:25Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I disagree. Reagan and Bush 1 were good presidents (yeah, I know, you don’t like them). Bush 2 was an awful president but he was to some degree a response to the Clinton shenanigans. Carter was an awful president and he was a response to Nixon. The recent election had McCain (yeah, I know, you don’t like him) who was relatively moderate. But Presidents aren’t the measure of a party’s rationality. I’ll grant that Reagan and George H. W. Bush weren’t horrible presidents (we’ll have to disagree about how ‘good’ they were), but Reagan’s tenure saw the beginning of the GOP transformation away from rational conservatism into dogmatic economic ideology (even though RR himself governed fairly pragmatically and GHWB understood the flaws of ‘voodoo economics’). G. W. Bush was indeed an awful president, but his election followed a vehement and unrelenting right wing publicity jihad against Clinton that started before he even began his first term. The Clinton fatigue felt by the electorate reflects that eight year propaganda blitz and the drama of the impeachment farce more than any ‘shenanigans’. The radicals didn’t take over the Republican Party overnight, and they’ve been well established in the party for some time, as I think McCain’s choice of running mate shows. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/142 "2011-01-24T13:38:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which differs in no way from the reverse process in which a speaker on the Left will be dismissed or ignored because he or she is too stupid to understand economics… Nope, wrong. Compare the detailed and elaborate refutation the like of **Le Jacquelope** is receiving on these boards with your suggestion of off-hand dismissal. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/143 "2011-01-24T13:59:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Heck, you couldn’t chuck a dead platypus around without hitting a rally burning Bush in effigy when he was Prez… Let me guess, it was probably that same mythical rally where the “bushitler” signs were… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/144 "2011-01-24T14:15:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Since this thread needs a reminder, [here is soon-to-be-Speaker Newt Gingrich’s memo](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4443.htm) which IMHO ushered in this new era of RW-style “discourse”: So it’s just more of the same. anti- (issue): flag betray crisis liberal mandate(s) and ny “favorite”, traitors ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/145 "2011-01-24T14:59:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nope, wrong. Compare the detailed and elaborate refutation the like of **Le Jacquelope** is receiving on these boards with your suggestion of off-hand dismissal. This is silly. A poster making outrageous claims is being challenged, often by posters on the Left, for his nonsense in the manner that any such claims–from Left or Right–would be challenged. This is hardly a dismissal of Milton Friedman for being “stupid, racist, elitist, uncaring, or under the influence of other pernicious forces like big business,” which is what Sam Stone was claiming. (More to the point, Sam was implying that someone like Krugman would dismiss someone like Friedman on those grounds, a point that I doubt has happened.) To the extent that the most shrill speakers on the far Left dismiss everyone on the Right, the most shrill speakers on the Right dismiss everyone on the Left in the same manner–as you should well know. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/146 "2011-01-24T15:22:24Z")
I’m not greatly concerned about a vitriol shortage affecting either the Left or Right. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/147 "2011-01-24T15:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Let me guess, it was probably that same mythical rally where the “bushitler” signs were… [/QUOTE] Are you seriously contending that there weren’t rallies (with pictures) of left wingers hanging Bush in effigy or painting Hitler type mustaches or putting other Nazi imagery on him (and on Chaney, Rummy and the rest)?? Or is this a whoosh? Because about 30 seconds of Goggling turns up quite a few…and quite of few of them are violently over the top, with all sorts of death threats and images of hanging, burning and everything else. I don’t know where some of you folks were during the last decade, but anyone who didn’t notice that the left went completely nuts during the Bush administration with their violent, over the top rhetoric was basically living on another planet somewhere. As bad as it’s been with the RW and Obama, I haven’t seen anything like [this](http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html) against Obama (yet)… (Though I wouldn’t be surprised if the loony types on the RW have or are doing stuff like this, I haven’t seen it. Possibly the media doesn’t pay as much attention to the RWers, or it just hasn’t been published as much) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/148 "2011-01-24T15:40:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > “Conservatives think liberals do bad things; liberals think conservatives are bad people.” The wonderful thing about that sentence is that it’s self-negating, in that it only gets cited by conservatives in order to portray liberals as bad people. Which I think is a bad idea. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/149 "2011-01-24T15:41:34Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is silly. A poster making outrageous claims is being challenged, often by posters on the Left, for his nonsense in the manner that any such claims–from Left or Right–would be challenged. So it is not silly - it is the opposite of what you claimed. > [@](#): > > To the extent that the most shrill speakers on the far Left dismiss everyone on the Right, the most shrill speakers on the Right dismiss everyone on the Left in the same manner–as you should well know. Then let’s see some instances where shrill speakers on the Right on the SDMB have dismissed leftist economic discussion out of hand in GD. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/150 "2011-01-24T15:52:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > “Conservatives think liberals do bad things; liberals think conservatives are bad people.” No, sir. Conservatives think liberals are **bad** people; liberals think conservatives are **stupid** people. (For my part I also think conservatives are bad people, but I mostly reserve that judgment for those further up the chain than the visible Tea Party assclowns.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/151 "2011-01-24T16:22:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The same thing is going on now with regard to homosexuality - where anyone who doesn’t instantly reverse life-long beliefs that homosexuality is bad is evil and wrong and should be reviled and insulted in the strongest way possible. > > “But wait,” you say. These people are in the “wrong” and therefore they deserve nothing but our scorn and hatred. Well, people on the right who object to liberal permissiveness and what is perceived as socialistic government programs think _you’re_ wrong The economic argument is one with two legitimate sides. The question of personal liberty (which you smear as “permissiveness”) has only a right side and a wrong one: [QUOTE=L. Sprague deCamp] “You don’t like the Goths?” “No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!” “Persecution?” Padway raised his eyebrows. “Religious persecution. We won’t stand for it forever.” “But I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased.” “That’s just it! We Orthodox are forced to stand around and watch Arians and Monophysites and Nestorians and Jews going about their business unmolested, as if they owned the country! If that isn’t persecution, I’d like to know what is!” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/152 "2011-01-24T16:25:58Z")
My own personal favorite is the tendency of tighty rightys to think of themselves as hard-headed realists, as compared with the fuzzy-minded idealists of the left. Myself, I have met very few real cynics, but never met one yet who didn’t think of himself as a hard-headed realist. And no, I don’t think true conservatives are bad people, I think the people who posture as conservatives for their own selfish reasons are bad people. And someone who incites the hatred of his fellow citizens in order to cash a fat paycheck…that is a very, very bad person. May the Goddess shrivel their peckers like a worm on a hot griddle, amen. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/153 "2011-01-24T16:32:53Z")
The problem with America is that everywhere you look, we are fat. We even have fat paychecks now! Sheesh…when will it end? (Personally, I think the loony lefty ‘we are part of the reality based community’ schtick is pretty amusing…much more than tighty righty posturing as hard-headed realists. After all, part of that description is pretty, well, descriptive…most RW’s I know ARE hard headed. But very few of the loony lefties I know even remotely resemble reality, have no basis in it, and aren’t even always party of a coherent community :p) -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/154 "2011-01-24T16:35:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My own personal favorite is the tendency of tighty rightys to think of themselves as hard-headed realists, as compared with the fuzzy-minded idealists of the left. Myself, I have met very few real cynics, but never met one yet who didn’t think of himself as a hard-headed realist. A romantic cynic would be an interesting character. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/155 "2011-01-24T17:13:13Z")
An ex of mine. Had the restrainig order delivered on Valentine’s Day. Nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/156 "2011-01-24T17:14:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > (Personally, I think the loony lefty ‘we are part of the reality based community’ schtick is pretty amusing… …very few of the loony lefties I know even remotely resemble reality, have no basis in it, and aren’t even always party of a coherent community :p) Says the poster who wishes all readers to believe he “wouldn’t be surprised” by effigies and Hitlerization of opponents by rightwingers but [hasn’t actually seen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13388978&postcount=147) any of it. Decorum insists we accept that as a truthful statement, but people who live so far from reality shouldn’t throw stones at it; you’re much too far away to hit the target. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/157 "2011-01-24T17:21:02Z")
Well, do you have a cite then? I haven’t seen any, so feel free. I HAVE, of course, [seen](http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612) plenty going from left to right though. Feel fee to toss some cite stones back at me and fight my ignorance. -XT ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/158 "2011-01-24T17:26:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, do you have a cite then? I haven’t seen any, so feel free. I HAVE, of course, [seen](http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612) plenty going from left to right though. Feel fee to toss some cite stones back at me and fight my ignorance. > > -XT Your Google is now broken? Those awful violent left wing images destroyed your search capabilities? [Google Images (SafeSearch moderate) for “tea party crowd”.](http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&newwindow=1&biw=1362&bih=544&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=tea+party+crowd&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/159 "2011-01-24T17:29:36Z")
Um…could you be a bit more specific? I see a mass of images there, but I don’t see many (or any really) with Nazi themes, or themes of Obama being hung or burned in effigy. Not so say they aren’t there (as I said, I wouldn’t be surprised if RW loonies did similar things to LW loonies), but, well, do you think you could pick them out for me? Is my Google broken? Not at all. But it’s not MY claim. Mine was incredulity that someone who was alive for the last 10 years hadn’t seen the barrage of images like the ones I bothered Googling up. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474/160 "2011-01-24T17:35:34Z")
True enough, comparisons of Buish to Hitler are wildly exaggerated. He’s responsible for the deaths of a few hundred thousand innocent people. Tops! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-america-does-not-need-rw-civility-america-needs-lw-vitriol/568474.md?page=9)