# No, Americans are \*NOT\* a bunch of racist warmongers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2002, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482 "2002-10-23T05:24:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/21 "2002-10-23T16:43:52Z")
Yes, the Bush administration, on the other hand is completely unbiased and honest. I can’t figure out how to do the smilies, but imagine the sarcastic face right here. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/22 "2002-10-23T16:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*is a big difference between actually being PRESENT in a war zone, seeing it up close, fucking SMELLING it, and sitting on your fat ass, eating cheetos and watching the CNN coverage of 911. \*\* OK, I guess by your lights, I’m an expert. I worked less than a half-mile from WTC. My girlfriend actually worked in WTC, and was in the lobby at the time of the attacks. I’ve been present in a war zone, seen it up close, and oh Christ, the smell - all of us in lower Manhattan smelled that horrible, nauseating, frightening smell for MONTHS after 9/11. So, speaking as a expert, let me say – fuck you. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/23 "2002-10-23T16:52:46Z")
for someone who’s a self-described cynic, you sure give Iraq the benefit of the doubt a lot. And The CIA did **not** say that “Iraq is not a threat”- however they have said that [Iraq could have nuclear weapons within a year](http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/10/05/iraq.cia/) and [they are still actively working on weapons of mass destruction](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm). And your IISS cite says that Iraq could have a nuclear device within months with outside help. Kinda weaselly to claim that they’re “years away” without mentioning that pertinent fact. Wanna provide a reliable source for those death toll #'s or do you think that Frontline and PBS are in on the war-mongering? ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/24 "2002-10-23T16:54:17Z")
So we’re only allowed to go war if there’s 100% certainty that absolutely no civilans are going to be killed? Yeah I’m pretty sure no one will take advantage of that situation. \ We will not harm civilians. \ Ex-squeeze me? \ You heard me… \ _busily bolting civilians to his tanks_ CHARRRRRGE!!! \ Hey no fair! You must play by our rules! \ I’m sorry I can’t hear you over the sounds of glorious victory! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/25 "2002-10-23T17:02:44Z")
Nobody’s talking about the Bush administration. We’re talking about the relative values of the two sources that were provided on Iraqi deaths during the Gulf War. Did you not even read your own link? One of the articles on that thread has high casualties listed as gospel. ALL THE REST of the articles utterly refute that claim, point-by-point, with references to primary material. Why on earth do you believe the first one? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/26 "2002-10-23T17:26:24Z")
I’m done with this thread. it’s pointless. have fun killing babies. fuck you all. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/27 "2002-10-23T17:37:56Z")
Geez **D\_t\_C** …Take my advice will ya? I see a stroke in your future. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/28 "2002-10-23T18:38:59Z")
So you admit that you were using biased, self-conflicting, and probably highly inaccurate figures? Good. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/29 "2002-10-23T19:03:07Z")
**Diogenes** - Killing babies isn’t nearly as much fun as handing you your ass in bite-sized chunks. Are you sure you can’t be lured back? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/30 "2002-10-23T19:51:32Z")
DtC, We’re not flaming you for being a pacifist, we’re flaming you for being an incredibly stupid pacifist who’s making flawed arguments and trying to back them up with biased cites while not addressing counterarguments. Let me see, what am I going to believe here: On one side, we have a cite from you, which comes from something called “Campaign Against Sanctions in Iraq.” On the other side, we have a cite from Mojo, which comes from PBS and Frontline. Gee. Lemme think on that for a while. Also, let me nitpick that Iraq does have WMD. They have chem and bio weapons, along with delivery vehicles. Here’s some info from the ISS cite you provided: > [@](#): > > The retention of WMD capacities by Iraq is self-evidently the core objective of the regime, for it has sacrificed all other domestic and foreign policy goals to this singular aim. … > > Today, after four years without inspections, there can be no certainty about the extent of Iraq’s current capacities. A reasonable net assessment is that Iraq has no nuclear weapons but could build one quickly if it acquired sufficient fissile material. It has extensive biological weapons capabilities and a smaller chemical weapons stockpile … > > Sooner or later, it seems likely that the current Iraqi regime will eventually achieve its objectives I dunno about you, but to me the ISS, while claiming to be impartial (a good thing), is leaning pretty heavily towards spelling out “Get Rid Of Saddam” in between the lines (an even better thing, IMO). Finally, can I have a cite for your claim that the CIA says Iraq is not a threat? ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/31 "2002-10-23T20:08:50Z")
Hey hey now…remember - only the **brown** babies guys, OK? ::rolleyes:: And **DtC** : make sure you don’t post in any threads on communism, because you’ve never SMELLED it before. You know, “No! You’re wrong! I’m not listening!” didn’t work as a debate tactic when I was 6 years old either, but at least then I didn’t know any better. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/32 "2002-10-23T20:23:43Z")
Killing babies?!?! You’re truly one insane fool, D. First off: The US doesn’t intentionally target babies. Second: You are not an expert. Third: Others of us on this board have served in war zones. Fourth: Big whoop. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/33 "2002-10-23T21:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > The CIA has has said that Iraq is not a threat. This is the same CIA that **failed** to predict the collapse of the USSR and **failed** to anticipate the various attacks on the US by Bin Laden. Given the scale of some of these events, you expect the CIA to get this one _right_??? Oh, come on! As a friend of mine who’s father worked for the Defense Department during the Kennedy years once said, “The CIA is where all the fuck ups who can’t get a job in the NSA go.” You claim to have served in the Persian Gulf War, yet you make no mention of your branch of service, nor where your combat duty was. I call “bullshit” on you. **None** of the hundreds of vets I’ve spoken to over the years have shown the craven attitude you display here. Even those who’ve become pacifists because of their experiences in war conducted themselves in more a dignified manner than you. You, sir, are a charlatan and a fraud. You’re no more a veteran than I am, and are a disgrace to civilians with your hysterical ravings. Your false claims to being a combat vet are an insult to those who’ve served honorably in the armed forces, and I for one, hope that you apologize to them for attempting to soil them with your name. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/34 "2002-10-23T21:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*A few things about your cite, **Diogenes**. > > 1: It’s a post on a discussion thread, though c&p’d from [fair.org](http://fair.org). The original article is no longer available. > \*\* Actually, it [is](http://www.fair.org/extra/best-of-extra/slaughter-not-us.html) (it had been archived). Not that I’m vouching for it. I couldn’t be bothered to track down the source for it, as the US News & World Report article was written 4/1/91 (i.e. before any real figures could have been known). ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/35 "2002-10-23T21:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Spoofe, Diogenes actually submitted his claim to actual experience of the bombing after you accused him of “sipping cappucino in the Coffeehouse Of Omniscience”. Then you attack him for an “appeal to authority”. Sorry Spoofe, but you can’t have it both ways, and you were the one who started that line of reasoning. SPOOFE calls bullshit, Gary. By the time I responded, the ENTIRETY of Diogenes’ comments consisted solely of “Iraqi civilians are not legitimate targets either, but that doesn’t seem to bother us much.” Please learn how to read before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/36 "2002-10-23T22:01:02Z")
FTR, Tuckerfan, I don’t think he ever claimed to be a combatant. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/37 "2002-10-23T22:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*FTR, Tuckerfan, I don’t think he ever claimed to be a combatant. \*\* Well, thess statements by him: > [@](#): > > I was in the Gulf War. I saw the aftermath of American and Iraqi bombing and it bothered me. I don’t want to do it again. And this comment from the linked thread: > [@](#): > > Have any of you cocksmokers ever BEEN in a fucking war zone? Well I have. Certainly imply that **Dipstick\_the\_Constipated** saw _some_ combat. Though my understanding is that the combat most foot soldiers saw during the war consisted mainly of watching the Iraqis beating a path back home or surrendering _en masse_. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/38 "2002-10-23T22:44:16Z")
Aha, **Bromley** , good catch. The link to [fair.org](http://fair.org) from **Diogenes** ’ link ended in .htm, while the valid link (yours) ends in .html. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/39 "2002-10-23T23:04:58Z")
Just giving him the benefit of the doubt, Tucker. The phrasing of his statements looked to me as if he were trying to avoid the impression that he was actually a combatant. Note that he doesn’t say he was a soldier, merely that he was there. I agree that it gives the impression he’d been involved in combat, but he doesn’t actually say it. He could have been in Iraq for any number of reasons unconnected to the military, and been caught in the wrong place, detained by or sympathized with the Iraqis, whatever. I don’t know the full story, so I was taking him at his word to that extent. It doesn’t really matter, after all. It still doesn’t mean Americans have a penchant for sauteed baby flesh. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482/40 "2002-10-23T23:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I’m done with this thread. it’s pointless. have fun killing babies. fuck you all. \*\* :eek::mad::rolleyes::mad::rolleyes::mad: and repeat that 6.02 ×10²³ times. Don’t you fucking dare accuse me of this you empty-headed piece of shit. God damn shit fuck ass bitch fuck damn fuck buttfucking batshit assbrains goatblowing son of a fuck fuck shit piss ass jag-off shitfucking assclown. You’ve made me so made I can’t even swear properly! Go fuck yourself with a coral snake, asscheese. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-americans-are-not-a-bunch-of-racist-warmongers/133482.md?page=3)