No apology necessary for code name "Geronimo"

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@John_Mace

Y

I’m offended by your taking offense of my name.

I’m offended by your offense to my… Oh never mind.

[John_Mace]

@Merijeek

Wow. That was quite a list of examples. Let’s all just assume that I said “No there aren’t.”

Let’s see some. I wonder how many operations the military names in a year? Wonder how many targets the intelligence services give names to every year?

-Joe

It wasn’t an operation code word. It was a code word for a person. They could call him BabyDoll or PapaBear. Just don’t name him after any actual people. That isn’t hard. Take names from fiction if they have to.

For a group of people who usually pride themselves on being creative, I’m seeing a whole lot of intentional lack of creativity in this case.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@John_Mace

For a group of people who usually pride themselves on being creative, I’m seeing a whole lot of intentional lack of creativity in this case.

Which group of people are you talking about?

[carnivorousplant]

@Merijeek

Let’s see some. I wonder how many operations the military names in a year?
-Joe

I wonder what kind of experience these guys acquire, and how.

[Argent_Towers]

@tumbleddown

Yes, many are. The words of Native people aren’t free for the occupiers to freely use as they see fit.

It’s easy to say “get over it” and worse but this is a government that repeatedly breaks treaties and fails to live up to its obligations toward Native people to this day. It’s not your culture, your heroes, your history being misused and smeared. It isn’t yet another example of insult being given to centuries of injury that have left your people impoverished, poorly educated, victims of crime, fighting addiction and incapable of accessing basic necessities like potable water or basic health care at rates that, if duplicated in the larger population, would all trigger national crises.

It’s a word, but it’s indicative of an attitude that Native people, Native culture, Native identities are just commodities and that insulting Native people isn’t something worthy of a moment’s thought.

I understand what you’re saying - actually, all my life I’ve always been extremely sympathetic to and supportive of Native causes. I do think they have not gotten treated fairly and they are entitled to some serious compensation. On the other hand, this semantic issue seems like the wrong thing to be upset about. There are definitely instances of offensive Indian stereotypes. The “Redskins,” the obnoxious Cleveland Indian guy…there are many others. On the other hand, some of the usages of Indian-related words seem to be more of a compliment than a smear.

Indian Motorcycles, for example. Believe me, they were not named because the people who named them had a low opinion of Native Americans. All those military vehicles and weapons - the people who named them were obviously trying to evoke images of power, and military prowess.

[Banquet_Bear]

…well, I just think its cool that President Obama decided to reference Doctor Who in this operation. Next thing I hope to see is the President in a bow-tie and fez.

- YouTube

[Tom_Tildrum]

@Argent_Towers

I understand what you’re saying - actually, all my life I’ve always been extremely sympathetic to and supportive of Native causes. I do think they have not gotten treated fairly and they are entitled to some serious compensation. On the other hand, this semantic issue seems like the wrong thing to be upset about. There are definitely instances of offensive Indian stereotypes. The “Redskins,” the obnoxious Cleveland Indian guy…there are many others. On the other hand, some of the usages of Indian-related words seem to be more of a compliment than a smear.

Indian Motorcycles, for example. Believe me, they were not named because the people who named them had a low opinion of Native Americans. All those military vehicles and weapons - the people who named them were obviously trying to evoke images of power, and military prowess.

Understood, but this dude was the most hated man on Earth. Having him named after you is no compliment.

I don’t imagine that any offense was really intended, but it baffles me that our government would codename a despised terrorist after a leader of a minority group that historically it once violently persecuted. It’s like codenaming him “Booker T” or “Mandela.”

[fumster]

@Gedd

Something like that. Yes you had the awesomely named Operation Overlord in WWII, but you also had Operation Market-Garden, Cornflakes, and Goodwood. Vietnam had Operations Junction City, Babylift and Patio. It’s the luck of the draw. For all we know the next on the list was “Monica Lewinsky.”

I find that hard to swallow.

[Argent_Towers]

@Tom_Tildrum

Understood, but this dude was the most hated man on Earth. Having him named after you is no compliment.

Oh, I am not justifying this incident with Bin Laden whatsoever. That’s not what I was trying to say in my post above. No, Geronimo should not have been the code name for Bin Laden. Geronimo was a heroic fighter and exceptionally brave. Bin Laden is and always has been a piece of shit coward.

[BigT]

Do you think the average soldier even knows that Geronimo is the name of a person? I for one only know it as an interjection. I never even once would have thought of a guy who apparently wasn’t even actually named that.

I’m sorry, but that word had been appropriated a long time ago, and it’s stupid to be complaining about it now.

[Tarwater]

Would it have been equally acceptable if his code-name was Martin Luther King Jr.? Would nobody have found that the least bit fucking stupid? I can almost guarantee that there’d be a thread on the SDMB declaiming the insensitivity. It may have been randomly assigned, but that doesn’t make it any less hurtful to the Apache people, nor does it make their outrage any less legitimate.

[Lord_Mondegreen]

@sh1bu1

@Gedd

For all we know the next on the list was “Monica Lewinsky.”

I find that hard to swallow.

I don’t care what they call their latest operation/target, as long as they don’t ram it down my throat.

[Ostrya]

I think everyone is confused, the perspective wrong. Laden was not Geronimo.

In operation Geronimo, “Geronimo” represented each of the Navy SEALs, who were out to scalp this guy. The operation was a success! They took the guy out, did the tomahawk gesture, and everyone went home.

[Weedy]

@BigT

Do you think the average soldier even knows that Geronimo is the name of a person? I for one only know it as an interjection. I never even once would have thought of a guy who apparently wasn’t even actually named that.

I’m sorry, but that word had been appropriated a long time ago, and it’s stupid to be complaining about it now.

Ignorant and proud of it

[Declan]

@Argent_Towers

Oh, I am not justifying this incident with Bin Laden whatsoever. That’s not what I was trying to say in my post above. No, Geronimo should not have been the code name for Bin Laden. Geronimo was a heroic fighter and exceptionally brave. Bin Laden is and always has been a piece of shit coward.

Neptune Spear was the code name for the operation, Geronimo was the code word for success on taking him out.

Declan

[carnivorousplant]

So what about naming a ship Crazy Horse in Star Trek?

[Nars_Glinley]

@Tarwater

Would it have been equally acceptable if his code-name was Martin Luther King Jr.? Would nobody have found that the least bit fucking stupid? I can almost guarantee that there’d be a thread on the SDMB declaiming the insensitivity. It may have been randomly assigned, but that doesn’t make it any less hurtful to the Apache people, nor does it make their outrage any less legitimate.

[Slight nitpick]
It’s the Fort Sill Apache chief that made the original complaint. They are a separate tribe from the Apache that most people think of. There are only around 600 people on the Fort Sill Apache tribal roll as compared to over 50,000 in the larger Apache tribe.
[/SN]

[flight]

@Dissonance

It was named Overlord at Churchill’s insistence. He also laid out guidelines on random operation names so that some mother wouldn’t have to say her son was killed in Operation Bunnyhug. Operation Just Cause (the invasion of Panama) was also deliberately renamed by Bush; originally it was Operation Blue Spoon.

I have worked on several secret projects and the names are always really stupid. As a rule, if you hear the name of a project/operation and think, “That sounds kind of cool,” then the name was overridden by a politician who expected it to become public knowledge and wanted it for publicity reasons. Think “Desert Storm” and “Desert Shield.” If it is something like, “Walrus font apple shame,” then that was the real name for it.

[PunditLisa]

The Seals have my permission to give the next homocidal maniac that they want to take out the code name “Lisa.”

[VunderBob]

They want an apology? OK, then.

“Sorry about that, Chief.”