# No apostrophe for possession? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619 "2003-11-27T20:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SeekingTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@SeekingTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekingTruth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/21 "2003-11-29T11:32:22Z")
the sarcasm should’ve burned a hole in your monitor 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rhettbutler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@rhettbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhettbutler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/22 "2003-11-29T15:08:24Z")
**jjiimm** wasn’t talking about the sarcasm in your statement about professors, but the irony of your misuse of an apostrophe in a thread about apostrophes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/23 "2003-11-29T16:00:27Z")
I am starting a campaign to rid us of the symbol known as “e”, which is not as important as you might think. My faith is that it will bring about a clarity and concision not known until now. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/24 "2003-11-29T17:03:05Z")
I don’t know about that. I find a lot of utility in that symbol and count on it as an aid to communication. Difficult to put your thoughts down in writing without it, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/25 "2003-11-29T17:24:00Z")
I can do without, but **TGU** can’t hold on to his nick if his proposal wins. And his post still contains a ‘the’! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/26 "2003-11-29T17:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I read (can’t remember where) that it was actually originally “The man his coat” or “The dog his ball”, The 's represents the contraction of the possessive pronoun (if true, then the masculine form must have been used for feminine pronouns too). \*\* But the feminine possessive was never _his_, it was always _her_. This theory is totally wrong, but it was imagined by 16th-century English grammarians who were ignorant of historical language changes. So they wrote phrases like “The Kinge his horses” which must have sounded just as odd and awkward then as it does now, and the practice was soon dropped. But this does explain why the apostrophe for the possessive was introduced, when it was (erroneously) thought that the masculine pronoun (hi)s was the original form, and the apostrophe was used to replace the imagined missing letters. Before this 16th century innovation, the English possessive had been -s or -es with no apostrophe. The final -_s_ as possessive or genitive case ending has nothing to do with the pronoun _his_. It is common to Germanic languages, and in fact it goes all the way back to Proto-Indo-European. For example: In Old English “hound” was _hund_ in the nominative and the genitive “hound’s” was _hundes_. (This shows that **peter morris** was correct in stating that the English possessive ending was originally _-es_.) In Proto-Indo-European the genitive ending was \*-os, \*-es, or \*-osyo. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/27 "2003-11-29T18:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > \*\*I am starting a campaign to rid us of _the symbol_ known as “e”, which is not as important as you might think. My faith is that it will bring about a clarity and concision not known until now. \*\* If you’d have posted “a symbol,” rather than “the symbol,” then your campaign would have had an excellent start. There would have been no e’s in your sentences, and the clarity and concision of your statement would surely have convinced everyone. So close, yet so far… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/28 "2003-11-29T20:42:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tusculan \* > \*\*I can do without, but **TGU** can’t hold on to his nick if his proposal wins. And his post still contains a ‘the’! \*\* Damn! And curs’s! My campaign is still in its infancy, an occasional slip cannot allow this mighty vision to fail. Plus, it’s bloody hard, I can inform you, this lipogrammising! ---
**Author:** ![Bucky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Bucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bucky)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/29 "2003-11-29T21:27:24Z")
Speaker, please tell me where I can get a PhD in English while ignoring punctuation. I can’t wait to spend up to a whole weekend to earn that degree! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619/30 "2003-11-30T22:16:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\*This theory is totally wrong, but it was imagined by 16th-century English grammarians who were ignorant of historical language changes. \*\* Hey, so I’m 500 years out of date. Won’t somebody give a sucker an even break??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-apostrophe-for-possession/215619.md?page=1)