# "No Atheists in foxholes", eh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-atheists-in-foxholes-eh/353973 "2006-04-24T13:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-atheists-in-foxholes-eh/353973/1 "2006-04-24T13:16:34Z")
A few weeks ago Katie Couric, the SDMB’s favorite talking head, repeated that hoary old chestnut on air. It seems Gid L. White, Master Sergeant, United States Army (Retired), wasn’t content to just roll his eyes and move on. He wrote her a letter. And Penn Jillette read it on his FreeFM radio show. I heard it there and emailed the show to see if a copy was available. It seems I wasn’t alone in requesting a copy, so the show has [posted the full text](http://penn.freefm.com/pages/27696.php) of Gid’s letter. I’ll quote a bit of it: > [@](#): > > While there is nothing wrong with a program highlighting the role religion has played in America’s armed forces, I find your mindless parroting of that silly old aphorism “There are no atheists in foxholes” to be thoughtless and downright offensive to the families of uncountable numbers of atheists (and I include agnostics) who gave their lives wearing the uniform of the American armed forces. > > Oh, yes – there are, and always have been atheists – both draftees and volunteers – on the battlefield, many of whom bear the scars of war or are resting (ironically) below white crosses in battlefield cemeteries throughout the world. > > I am in a position to know: After initially being nominated to West Point, I enlisted in the United States Army as a Private in 1964 and served 21 years on active duty, retiring as a Master Sergeant in 1985. As one who is not shy about proclaiming my firm non-belief in any supernatural nonsense, religious or otherwise, I became aware of literally thousands of fellow-atheists in uniform all over the world. Some were overt and public about their beliefs, some were not, but I never met one who did not take seriously his sworn obligation to serve honorably and lay down his life if necessary. Many did. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-atheists-in-foxholes-eh/353973/2 "2006-04-24T13:22:56Z")
Thanks for that. I hadn’t heard it. I am all in favor of this and a big fan of Penn. I wonder if it had any success at all in penetrating the skull of Katie. I regret that it seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-atheists-in-foxholes-eh/353973/3 "2006-04-24T13:31:18Z")
Haha. He takes himself a bit too seriously. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-atheists-in-foxholes-eh/353973/4 "2006-04-24T13:35:44Z")
Hmm… I never took the line too seriously, and never in that sense that Penn seems to be rebutting: ie, ‘no atheist would ever sign up to serve his country.’ More like ‘war is so bad, even if you don’t really believe in God you’ll be praying for _some_ higher power to save you.’ Which, if taken literally, is still a bit of a slight to the committed beliefs of some atheists, but not badly so compared to some other things you’d hear in jokes. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-atheists-in-foxholes-eh/353973/5 "2006-04-24T13:38:19Z")
And, just because this topper seems a little apropos: “…on the other hand, there aren’t very many worshippers in the charnel house.”