# No Avatars Here? Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626 "2012-06-19T09:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/221 "2012-06-20T08:50:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Because you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere to fight avatar oppression. See? You joke because you can’t give a real, rational reason. You wouldn’t drop your subscription, and neither would anyone else in the anti-avatar camp, because avatars wouldn’t affect you at all. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/222 "2012-06-20T11:11:58Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > With each post you’re slightly climbing down on your use of language; better would be to just say “OK, there are no reasoning errors in your point. I was wrong to state that there were”. Alright, I’ll ramp the issue back up if you’d like. Why is **who** says something more important than **what** they say? It’s rhetorical so you don’t need to answer. If you really need pictures rather than text to identify someone, then people not having pictures won’t be recognizable to you (and I don’t see what difference it makes anyway). Your reason, while better than those on the anti-side, isn’t a “good” reason due to flaws that can be nit-picked to death. Better to just be honest and say you want them because you like them. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/223 "2012-06-20T11:28:45Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > Alright, I’ll ramp the issue back up if you’d like. Why is **who** says something more important than **what** they say? It’s rhetorical so you don’t need to answer. If you really need pictures rather than text to identify someone, then people not having pictures won’t be recognizable to you (and I don’t see what difference it makes anyway). > > Your reason, while better than those on the anti-side, isn’t a “good” reason due to flaws that can be nit-picked to death. Better to just be honest and say you want them because you like them. I don’t need avatars to tell people apart, but the argument still makes sense. If a significant number of people use avatars, it LESSENS the pool of people not using avatars. In that way, “no avatar” is like an avatar itself. It’s its own sign of uniqueness. Say everybody uses an avatar except Alice and Bob, now if you see a user without an avatar it’s either Alice, Bob, or a new user who hasn’t set an avatar yet, and from there you can probably tell from the posting style who it is. Now, not everybody except for two people will set an avatar, obviously, but it will still narrow down the pool considerably. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/224 "2012-06-20T11:34:30Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Now, not everybody except for two people will set an avatar, obviously, but it will still narrow down the pool considerably. To tell the truth, the only reason I started to call it “silly” was because one poster said he used it for a reason to counter a stupid argument from the other side. If that isn’t silly, I don’t know what is. Note: you won’t find that post claiming that is why it was done, as the post was edited. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/225 "2012-06-20T11:59:07Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > I said I won’t repeat myself, but here goes anyway: > Based on experience from other boards, and what other people on this board have stated, there are those that won’t use avatars, so the recognizabilty reasoning is flawed. If it only works sometimes, then logically its use is limited and so not a very viable reason. If you can’t see that, then I’m just wasting my time even stating it in the first place, let alone repeating it. Gosh, that’s swell–your position is _exactly_ the same as that of the old '80s version of the Moral Majority, of the current Christian Right, hell-it’s the same “logic” as the anti-gay rights crowd uses (although clearly this is a far less serious issue). Apparently, if you don’t think something benefits you, personally, it should be outlawed because others can’t enjoy something that you don’t like, even if it has no effect on you. It’s fine that you wouldn’t find some avatar use helpful as a guide for remembering/recognizing. For some people, it _would_ be useful–based on their experiences on other boards that have them. Given that you’d never have to see an avatar, ever, unless you went through about 6 mouse-clicks to turn on the ability to see them, why would you want to forbid _others_ from having something they feel would help them? Even if you don’t think it would. There has never been one! single! anti-avatar person, in any of these threads _ever_ who’s been able to state in concrete terms\* why there’s a problem with other people being able to see avatars. It wouldn’t slow down the board. It’s actually retarded to make the “Somehow it would violate copyright, despite 20 years of message board avatars and not a single case _ever_ challenging their use.” (because Fair Use clearly applies and anyone who tried to sue would be laughed out of court) So, other than the power-trip of preventing others from having something that they will enjoy and that will have exactly zero effect on you, why do you want to keep them away? \*Concrete: in other words, not some vague airy-fairy drivel like “it would change the tone of the board in some undefinable way if _other people_ could choose to see avatars” ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/226 "2012-06-20T12:18:39Z")
Well as long as you’re being as open minded as you say you’d wish the other side were, okay then. Seriously, your position is everyone else is just being meanies? The majority don’t seem to want them, the owner doesn’t want them, the mods don’t want them, the majority won’t turn them on even. Now throw in that there is no shortage of boards, with avatars, on the internet, if you just gotta have them to get by, and I’m not seeing the burning need, sorry. This issue totally deserves a sticky stating the owners position, putting an end to the whole thing once and for all. In the end, that’s all that’s going to matter anyway, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/227 "2012-06-20T12:20:13Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Given that you’d never have to see an avatar, ever, unless you went through about 6 mouse-clicks to turn on the ability to see them, why would you want to forbid _others_ from having something they feel would help them? Even if you don’t think it would. You obviously are under the impression that I am against this. My position is, was, and always will be that I don’t care, but if others want it and it hurts no one, then whatever they do is fine with me. I have no idea where this rant came from. I can only assume that you quoted the wrong post. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/228 "2012-06-20T12:21:09Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Remember when we gained the “nested quotes” function? That was a change! And then it got disabled–another change! That’s two changes right there. Progress! Look out, 21st century, here we come… Yeah, since avatars would be so easy to turn off, why\* not\* a trial period? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/229 "2012-06-20T12:36:51Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > Why is **who** says something more important than **what** they say? It’s rhetorical so you don’t need to answer. That may be a rhetorical question, but it’s also a straw man. > [@](#): > > Your reason, while better than those on the anti-side, isn’t a “good” reason due to flaws that can be nit-picked to death. Better to just be honest and say you want them because you like them. You haven’t given _any_ flaws. You’ve just said that in your opinion not many people will upload avatars. That’s not a flaw in my argument. > [@](#): > > To tell the truth, the only reason I started to call it “silly” was because one poster said he used it for a reason to counter a stupid argument from the other side. If that isn’t silly, I don’t know what is. > Note: you won’t find that post claiming that is why it was done, as the post was edited. Wrong again. I take it you’re referring to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15182983&postcount=32) post which is still there on page 1. And you’re now saying it’s silly to counter a stupid argument with a good one? Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/230 "2012-06-20T12:44:26Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > You obviously are under the impression that I am against this. My position is, was, and always will be that I don’t care, but if others want it and it hurts no one, then whatever they do is fine with me. I have no idea where this rant came from. I can only assume that you quoted the wrong post. Or that I’m a moron and associated that one quoted bit with another poster, despite your name being clearly attached to it. That’s entirely possible too. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/231 "2012-06-20T12:50:02Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And you’re now saying it’s silly to counter a stupid argument with a good one? Yikes. If the only reason you are doing it is to counter it, yes. Your reason should stand on it’s own, not as a counter weight to another. The rest of your post I’m not going to bother with, as I already went down that road. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on what “flawed” means. This whole subject is moot, as it isn’t going to happen. TPTB could just be honest and say they don’t want avatars, but they have to make up convoluted “reasons” as to why they are taking their current position. If people want to keep banging their heads against this wall for the amusement of others, they can do it without me. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/232 "2012-06-20T12:51:12Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Or that I’m a moron and associated that one quoted bit with another poster, despite your name being clearly attached to it. That’s entirely possible too. > > :smack: Maybe if I had an avatar it wouldn’t have happened… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/233 "2012-06-20T13:14:42Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Remember when we gained the “nested quotes” function? That was a change! And then it got disabled–another change! That’s two changes right there. Progress! Look out, 21st century, here we come… Well to be fair I think that experiment was a disaster (and I was for them BTW). Something about how editing the things was a bit tricky/awkward and if you did it wrong the quote was majorly screwed up. And in that case I think there were good reasons why nested quotes were a good idea in theory and how they would add actual increased functionality to the board. So, the TPTB were willing to try. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/234 "2012-06-20T13:19:49Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > If the only reason you are doing it is to counter it, yes. Your reason should stand on it’s own, not as a counter weight to another. There are several ways that this is incorrect: Firstly it is a mixed metaphor: counter-arguments do not rest on, in the sense of rely on, the arguments that they counter. Secondly, it’s quite clear from what I [said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15182983&postcount=32) that my position does stand fine on its own; I’m saying that _the reason I have to repeat it_ in threads like this is to counter a common position. Finally, even if it only existed as a counter-argument to a stupid argument, why is that silly? e.g. If people keep using the slippery-slope argument against gay marriage, why is it silly to have in your pocket a good counter-argument to this? > [@](#): > > We’ll just have to agree to disagree on what “flawed” means. Or you could just admit that you have been unable to find any logical flaws because it is not flawed, and you were wrong to use such terms. You could have done that about 30 posts ago and then you’d only have been wrong _once_, instead of digging a hole for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/235 "2012-06-20T14:24:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Gosh, that’s swell–your position is _exactly_ the same as that of the old '80s version of the Moral Majority, of the current Christian Right, hell-it’s the same “logic” as the anti-gay rights crowd uses (although clearly this is a far less serious issue). Apparently, if you don’t think something benefits you, personally, it should be outlawed because others can’t enjoy something that you don’t like, even if it has no effect on you. You make it sound as if making avatars an option instead of making them mandatory is some kind of major civil rights violation. Overreact much? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/236 "2012-06-20T14:32:49Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Yeah, since avatars would be so easy to turn off, why\* not\* a trial period? It’s a slippery slope. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/237 "2012-06-20T14:36:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You make it sound as if making avatars an option instead of making them mandatory is some kind of major civil rights violation. Overreact much? Let me help you with your reading. I clearly typed the following words > [@](#): > > although clearly this is a far less serious issue And coming from the guy who near wet his pants trying to insist that this thread be closed because discussion is scary, the “overreact much” thing is pretty much a pot/kettle comment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/238 "2012-06-20T14:48:02Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > And coming from the guy who near wet his pants trying to insist that this thread be closed because discussion is scary, the “overreact much” thing is pretty much a pot/kettle comment. Yeah, the only reason to be opposed to something is because you’re scared of it. Only one of us is overreacting here, as can be seen from your totally inaccurate and vividly imaginative description of my posts. I’m not afraid, I didn’t insist that the thread be closed, and I’ve remained calm throughout this thread. All that’s being discussed here is an _option_ on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/239 "2012-06-20T14:49:37Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Remember when we gained the “nested quotes” function? That was a change! And then it got disabled–another change! That’s two changes right there. Progress! Look out, 21st century, here we come… Didn’t we originally have nested quotes (before that big outage), then the board came back without them, then by the time we’d got them back, everyone had forgotten how to use them, and chaos ensued until they were turned off? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626/240 "2012-06-20T14:54:52Z")
> [@Gezmo](#): > > Wow, everyone here is so up tight about the issue. Worrying about every little possible situation that could happen, hating new ideas, and feeling the need to place strict regulations on everything. Congratulations, sir or madam, on distilling out such a succinct description of life at the Dope. In your first thread, yet! [golfclap] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-avatars-here-why/625626.md?page=13)