# No bailout exec can earn more than $500,000. Good idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413 "2009-02-04T14:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/161 "2009-02-08T03:53:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, the “Anything but the far right is Communist !” routine. Obama isn’t Mao, any more than modern CEOs are as bad as Old South slave plantation owners. The blanket statement that the “government is a far more reasonable allocator of everything” is nonsense. Mao alone is proof of that and there are plenty of other examples. If one wants to argue that there are specific times/industries where the government is better then we can go down that road. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/162 "2009-02-08T04:09:20Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There’s many bad CEOs. But generally speaking a CEO is more a “big ideas” man than a micro manager, for this reason sometimes even the best CEOs won’t be able to singlehandedly save a company when the economy is going down the drain. Some industries you are extremely vulnerable to market fluctuations. I agree that financial sector CEOs “as a class” have recently made some colossal missteps, but I fail to see how these companies are best served by not being able to bring in good people. These caps, from what I’ve read, would apply to _new hires_ as well, people that may not have even worked in the financial sector prior to this. And as soon as the loans are paid back, the CEOs can be paid _any_ amount the board so chooses (And do you _really_ think that the various CEOs **don’t** have their lawyers looking for every single possible loophole they can find in the caps? :dubious: ) Why wouldn’t some CEO see it as a _challenge_ do go in there, return the company to profitability and pay the loans off as quickly as possible? If he manages to do that in a short period of time (say a year or two), would he **not** be within his rights to _demand_ a whopping increase in his salary? And would the board of directors **not** be foolish if they **didn’t** give it to him? He did, after all, save the company’s bacon. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/163 "2009-02-08T04:49:42Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > But the demand doesn’t go away, nor does the skilled labor. Companies that know how to run their businesses can do very, very well when their competition fails. If you are talking financials the demand has gone away. They banks all cooperated in the fleecing of the world economy. But when it blew up ,the demand went with it. They sold debt. We leveraged ourselves out of sight and if we get back to anything resembling stability ,it will be at a lower level. The difference in the peoples standard of living did not disappear. The wage difference will be lower in the future. That money did not disappear. it is in the pockets of those who ran it into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/164 "2009-02-08T04:53:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Keep in mind that government doesn’t make anything. Everything you see around you was created by some company formed by some entrepreneur. Including our current economic crisis? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/165 "2009-02-08T12:42:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Garbage. Government makes and maintains a great many things. Nor are “entrepreneurs” all that huge a force in the corporate world; mostly, corporations are run by parasites. Once again you confirm my suspicions that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The government doesn’t “make” anything other than laws and paperwork. Private companies do the actual work of making roads, building houses and whatnot. And entrepreneurs are not that huge a force in the “corporate world”? 99% of American companies employ fewer than 500 people. About 50 percent of all Americans work for those companies. That sounds pretty significant to me. [http://economics.about.com/od/smallbigbusiness/a/us\_business.htm](http://economics.about.com/od/smallbigbusiness/a/us_business.htm) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/166 "2009-02-08T19:43:57Z")
Many government agencies take care of the water ,sewerage, waste and other lots of other functions. It is not true they do not do work. they do it well and a damn sight cheaper that contractors.When a tree falls around here ,the city removes it in hours.Our fire department still puts out fires. Our police department is still not privatized. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/167 "2009-02-08T20:51:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Including our current economic crisis? Last I checked the current economic crisis isn’t a tangible good. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/168 "2009-02-08T23:59:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > As long as there’s a free market there are going to be winners and losers. There will never be a society where the poor can “weather the storm” as well as the rich, unless you do away with the rich entirely. As I’ve pointed out though, we’re moving _away_ from such ideas, not towards them. I’m fine with us making sure the poor don’t starve in the streets during economic downturns, but there’s never going to be a world where the lower class will have the option of retiring to their mansion in Cayman Brac when the Fortune 500 company they were running goes under. The notion that public anger is the result of class envy or misguided populism minimizes the systemic corruption in corporate governance and the U.S. government. I don’t understand the skill set exclusive to CEOs that causes a limited talent pool. I am not even sure what a CEO contributes to society that is more valuable than leaders in public institutions or a college professor. Undoubtedly, corporate executives deserve to be well compensated and the job is stressful, but the compensation far exceeds what the CEO contributes to the firm and what other professions contribute to society. > [@](#): > > By analyzing the statistical relationship between executive pay and firms’ size, profits and product mix, Mr. Bebchuk and Mr. Grinstein calculated how much compensation could have been expected to rise between 1993 and 2003. Their result: In 2003 the top five executives at the average public company could have been expected to earn a collective $6 million – but they actually received almost twice that. Overall, that means that the 1,500 companies studied “overpaid” a total of $8.7 billion in 2003. [http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin\_center/corporate\_governance/MediaMentions/12-22-06\_Post.pdf](http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/corporate_governance/MediaMentions/12-22-06_Post.pdf) > [@](#): > > Among other startling facts revealed in the report is that in 2005 alone, defense industry CEOs garnered 44 times more pay than military generals with 20 years experience, and 308 times more than army privates. [http://www.phoenix-center.org/IntheNews/itn06/AsiaTimes1September06.pdf](http://www.phoenix-center.org/IntheNews/itn06/AsiaTimes1September06.pdf) The top American CEOs are a small closed group and identify more with each other than the company. Executives negotiate compensation up front, including golden parachutes and stock options, and select who sits on the compensation board. There is a shared benefit for peers on a compensation board to approve high compensation. The same top CEOs are shuffled among the top companies and sit on each others compensation boards. There is strong evidence that norms established by the CEOs not a limited talent pool determine CEO wages. Excessive CEO compensation and the increase in corporate control fraud is an issue of corporate governance. Stock holders of large publically traded companies don’t have the power to control corporate boards. Therefore, it is not only appropriate but the responsibility of the government to establish some type of oversight, strong rules, and severe consequences when those rules are violated. > [@](#): > > Unlike most democratic elections, corporate board elections bar voters (namely shareholders) from nominating candidates, and require not a plurality nor even a majority but rather a single vote to secure an election. And while company coffers are open to the board to campaign for incumbent candidates, shareholders are barred access to these funds (which they have rightful claim over) and must instead finance rival candidacy campaigns from their own funds. [http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin\_center/corporate\_governance/MediaMentions/10-27-06\_SocialFunds.pdf](http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/corporate_governance/MediaMentions/10-27-06_SocialFunds.pdf) The majority of executives responsible for the economic catastrophe are still in charge of the financial institutions. It is demoralizing to expect the American public to pay billions in bonuses and maintain the excessive salaries of the very people responsible for the destruction. If CEOs don’t like the arrangement, maybe it is time to outsource. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/169 "2009-02-09T00:24:58Z")
> [@Ocean\_Annie](#): > > Executives negotiate compensation up front, including golden parachutes and stock options, and select who sits on the compensation board. There is a shared benefit for peers on a compensation board to approve high compensation. The same top CEOs are shuffled among the top companies and sit on each others compensation boards. Wrong. Why is it in every one of the current running threads on this subject people continue to spout this falsehood? The Compensation Committee of the BOD is chosen by the Board, not the CEO. The membership is public, interlocks are easily viewed, and the total compensation of the top 5 company officers and the compensation of the BOD itself is publicly available data. Once again for those wish to understand how executive compensation at publicly traded companies works: CEO compensation at a public company is set by the compensation committee of the Board of Directors. The membership of that committee is disclosed in the Proxy. For example, Apple Computer: > [@](#): > > The Compensation Committee is responsible primarily for reviewing the compensation arrangements for the Company’s executive officers, including the CEO, and for administering the Company’s equity compensation plans. The Compensation Committee’s authority may not be delegated to the Company’s management or others. The Compensation Committee met a total of four times during fiscal 2008. The members of Apple’s Comp Committee: > [@](#): > > William V. Campbell has been Chairman of Intuit Inc. since August 1998. Mr. Campbell also is Chair of the Board of Trustees of Columbia University and a director of the National Football Foundation College Hall of Fame. > Millard S. Drexler has been Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of J. Crew Group, Inc. since January 2003. Previously, Mr. Drexler was Chief Executive Officer of Gap Inc. (“Gap”) from 1995 and President from 1987 until September 2002. Mr. Drexler also was a director of Gap from November 1983 until October 2002. > Albert A. Gore, Jr. has served as Chairman of Current TV since 2002, Chairman of Generation Investment Management since 2004 and a partner of Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers since 2007. Mr. Gore also is Chairman of the Alliance for Climate Protection. Finally, since someone here will always bring up that everyone takes care of each other: > [@](#): > > **Compensation Committee Interlocks and Insider Participation** > The Compensation Committee members whose names appear in the section entitled “Board Committees” were Compensation Committee members during all of fiscal 2008. Mr. Campbell formerly served as an officer of the Company and of FileMaker, Inc., a subsidiary of the Company. No other member of the Compensation Committee is or has been an executive officer of the Company, and no member of the Compensation Committee had any relationships requiring disclosure by the Company under the SEC’s rules requiring disclosure of certain relationships and related-party transactions. None of the Company’s executive officers served as a director or a member of a compensation committee (or other committee serving an equivalent function) of any other entity, the executive officers of which served as a director of the Company or member of the Compensation Committee during fiscal 2008. So the CEO does NOT set his own pay, nor does he set his own bonus or stock awards. He can negotiate for higher pay, he can hire a compensation consultant to argue on his behalf, he can purchase enough shares to swing the vote - but he does not set his own pay. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/170 "2009-02-09T01:08:46Z")
[Merrill Execs Pay Selves Bonuses Ahead of Schedule (and Before BofA Closing) | naked capitalism](http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/01/merrill-execs-pay-selves-bonuses-ahead.html) Just fair and above board aren’t they. Merrill was being bought out after LOSING 21 BILLION the last quarter. They usually pay bonuses in Jan. But Citi was taking them over then. The compensation committee met early and rewarded almost 4 billion in bonuses. The above board, beyond control ,completely fair board met early and gave away 4 bill. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/171 "2009-02-09T01:31:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yes, you would like a system that basically just pays people regardless if the work they do is valuable or even if they work at all. > > I can never figure out why you Liberals think that the government is the best and most fair allocator of resources. Wait what? The thread you’re posting in is about no talent hacks masquerading as CEOs and running companies, and all the employees who depend on their jobs at these companies, into the ground. Then getting huge bonuses for their masturbation. You conservatives think that’s valuable? Ya’ll have very odd definitions of valuable I have to say. The point of a safety net is if some CEO such as the current crop of inbred retards, misfortune, bad luck, or even bad choices puts you in a bad place you survive at a basic level till you can recover. It’s an artificial rock bottom. Take another way. A safety net means no American would have to live on street, face bankruptcy, crippling condition or death for lack of medical coverage, or go hungry for lack of basic food. It needn’t mean anything more. It doesn’t mean a car, it doesn’t mean anything better then wal-mart clearance prices clothes, section 8 housing, cheap basic food, and educational opportunities to improve their place in life so they don’t need the 'net. Trust me I grew up that poor. Anyone who’d stay that poor out of choice isn’t someone you’d want in the work force anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/172 "2009-02-09T03:18:32Z")
[Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power](http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html) The distribution of wealth in America has become as distorted as the Gilded Age. I do not know how the conservatives think the private sector is better at allocating wealth and resources. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/173 "2009-02-09T04:07:52Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Wrong. Why is it in every one of the current running threads on this subject people continue to spout this falsehood? > > The Compensation Committee of the BOD is chosen by the Board, not the CEO. The membership is public, interlocks are easily viewed, and the total compensation of the top 5 company officers and the compensation of the BOD itself is publicly available data. > > Once again for those wish to understand how executive compensation at publicly traded companies works: > > CEO compensation at a public company is set by the compensation committee of the Board of Directors. The membership of that committee is disclosed in the Proxy. For example, Apple Computer: Apple doesn’t have a good track record. Steve Jobs was awarded millions in stock options at a board of directors meeting that never took place. > [@](#): > > In its 20-page complaint, the agency presents a detailed version of events surrounding two options grants in 2001 — one benefiting Mr. Jobs, the other his top managers — for which documents were created or altered to establish action by Apple’s board on dates when none occurred. [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/technology/25apple.html?ex=1335153600&en=c5f0bab9c91bb4b0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/technology/25apple.html?ex=1335153600&en=c5f0bab9c91bb4b0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) You didn’t provide a source for the information quoted in your post. Here is what I found with Google. > [@](#): > > For all the talk of restraining C.E.O. pay, most compensation committees remain what Warren Buffett once called them—“tail-wagging puppy dogs.” At some companies, this is simply because the C.E.O. has packed the board with cronies. [The Sky-High Club | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2007/01/22/070122ta_talk_surowiecki) > [@](#): > > Even when an independent board negotiates a C.E.O.’s contract, however, the directors are often, in a sense, negotiating with themselves. Of the ten independent members of Home Depot’s board, for instance, eight are or have been C.E.O.s. Since C.E.O. pay is often driven by comparisons between companies, directors have a certain interest in keeping executive pay high. [The Sky-High Club | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2007/01/22/070122ta_talk_surowiecki) > [@](#): > > Most people’s pay is determined by salary policies, bosses, and budgets that limit what they get paid. In the case of CEOs, they “only” have to get their corporate board to agree to a “fair” level of compensation. Therein lies the most important reason why CEOs are so highly, and in some cases, outrageously paid. [http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/feb2009/ca2009025\_072667.htm?chan=careers\_managing+index+page\_top+stories](http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/feb2009/ca2009025_072667.htm?chan=careers_managing+index+page_top+stories) > [@](#): > > A feeling of indebtedness to the CEO is also a strong determinant of high CEO pay. “There is a widespread norm of reciprocity across all societies,” says O’Reilly. In other words: you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours. The people sitting in the room deliberating over the CEO’s pay package tend to feel obligated to the CEO, often, quite simply, because she gave them a plum position on the board. So they want to reciprocate by awarding her a good salary. “Ostensibly, these compensation committee members are independent, but they are almost always appointed by the CEO,” [http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/compensation\_ceo.shtml](http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/compensation_ceo.shtml) > [@](#): > > “The CEO still has too much control over who sits on the board,” says Nell Minow, of the The Corporate Library, a watchdog group based in Portland, Maine. “If you’re picking the people who set your pay, … then you shouldn’t be too surprised when they overpay.” [America's CEO pay may soon face squeeze - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0104/p01s01-wmgn.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/174 "2009-02-09T04:52:33Z")
[Gordon Gekko lives.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/06/AR2009020602794.html) > [@](#): > > It wasn’t always this way. In 1960, the ratio of CEO pay at large companies to that of the president of the United States was about 2 to 1. In 2007, it was more than 20 to 1. In 1980, executives at large companies made about 40 times what the average worker made. Last year, CEOs made about 360 times more than the average worker. During the golden age of U.S. economic power, business schools taught future executives to see themselves as trustees of their companies and stewards of our economic resources. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/175 "2009-02-09T05:06:29Z")
> [@Ocean\_Annie](#): > > Apple doesn’t have a good track record. Steve Jobs was awarded millions in stock options at a board of directors meeting that never took place. > > You didn’t provide a source for the information quoted in your post. > > Here is what I found with Google. It is called the Def-14 A and is filed with the SEC, it is also known as the proxy (as I stated). Anyone who is SERIOUS about understanding executive pay goes their first. I notice that you could not refute anything that I posted. To save you one more Google: > **[Definitive Proxy Statement](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312508010038/ddef14a.htm)** ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/176 "2009-02-09T05:25:31Z")
The compensation committee is chosen by the board. So, the board works with the CEOs. Do you think that is an adversarial relationship. They have interlocking boards and interlocking thieves. I know a guy who works for a compensation committee. He says what they do is dig up what other execs are making and they use that for a start in wages. That is not a system that will hold down wages. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/177 "2009-02-09T05:35:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The compensation committee is chosen by the board. So, the board works with the CEOs. Do you think that is an adversarial relationship. They have interlocking boards and interlocking thieves. > I know a guy who works for a compensation committee. He says what they do is dig up what other execs are making and they use that for a start in wages. That is not a system that will hold down wages. Interlocks are reported as required by the SEC. If you \*\*know \*\*of a BOD with such horrible interlocks, please let me know. I will run a check and report back here with what I find through a review of the filed reports, similar to what I posted for Apple as an example. There is no digging required - it is all publicly available information. That is part of why there is accelaration in pay. If everyone knew what their job paid at other firms, you would see similar pay movements in other jobs. As for adversarial - it is as adversarial as most jobs. I do not have an adversarial relationship with my CEO, though I report to him. If my performance drops, I am fired. I have a severance clause in my contract. I have change-in-control provisions for my options. I have shares in the firm granted to me as well. All of this I negotiated for, because I knew what I was worth in the marketplace and I knew many of the ways a company could screw me. CEO’s benefit from transparent information, and knowledge of the game. That is not criminal. If you wish to complain, the real target should be the comp committee and the BOD for not doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/178 "2009-02-09T09:53:31Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > So you’ve just said there’s not a single CEO in the world who is anything other than an incompetent crook? How can you legitimately post on a forum like this, that vaunts the open exchange of ideas, with an unwaveringly absolutist position like that? Any one involved in losing these sums of money is either an incompetent or a crook. Self-evidently. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/179 "2009-02-09T13:29:24Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Wait what? > > The thread you’re posting in is about no talent hacks masquerading as CEOs and running companies, and all the employees who depend on their jobs at these companies, into the ground. Then getting huge bonuses for their masturbation. > > You conservatives think that’s valuable? Ya’ll have very odd definitions of valuable I have to say. Right, and the Liberal response is always salary caps, more regulation, and wealth redistribution. I’m not opposed to smart regulation. However the more regulation, the more you suck wealth away from companies that actually produce goods and services and give it to lawyers, accountants and “compliance experts” who produce nothing but paperwork. [gonzomax = quote] [http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html](http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html) The distribution of wealth in America has become as distorted as the Gilded Age. I do not know how the conservatives think the private sector is better at allocating wealth and resources. [/quote] Because wealth and resources are created and acquired by the private sector, not by government. gonzomax [http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html](http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html) The distribution of wealth in America has become as distorted as the Gilded Age. I do not know how the conservatives think the private sector is better at allocating wealth and resources. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413/180 "2009-02-09T13:41:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > However the more regulation, the more you suck wealth away from companies that actually produce goods and services and give it to lawyers, accountants and “compliance experts” who produce nothing but paperwork. That is a hyperbolic and unsupported conservative assumption. Conservative ‘Business as Usual’ has bought the economy to its knees. Conservatives have lost any right they had to pontificate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-bailout-exec-can-earn-more-than-500-000-good-idea/484413.md?page=10)