The blanket statement that the “government is a far more reasonable allocator of everything” is nonsense. Mao alone is proof of that and there are plenty of other examples. If one wants to argue that there are specific times/industries where the government is better then we can go down that road.
And as soon as the loans are paid back, the CEOs can be paid any amount the board so chooses (And do you really think that the various CEOs don’t have their lawyers looking for every single possible loophole they can find in the caps? :dubious: )
Why wouldn’t some CEO see it as a challenge do go in there, return the company to profitability and pay the loans off as quickly as possible? If he manages to do that in a short period of time (say a year or two), would he not be within his rights to demand a whopping increase in his salary? And would the board of directors not be foolish if they didn’t give it to him? He did, after all, save the company’s bacon.
If you are talking financials the demand has gone away. They banks all cooperated in the fleecing of the world economy. But when it blew up ,the demand went with it. They sold debt. We leveraged ourselves out of sight and if we get back to anything resembling stability ,it will be at a lower level. The difference in the peoples standard of living did not disappear. The wage difference will be lower in the future. That money did not disappear. it is in the pockets of those who ran it into the ground.
Including our current economic crisis?
Once again you confirm my suspicions that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The government doesn’t “make” anything other than laws and paperwork. Private companies do the actual work of making roads, building houses and whatnot.
And entrepreneurs are not that huge a force in the “corporate world”? 99% of American companies employ fewer than 500 people. About 50 percent of all Americans work for those companies. That sounds pretty significant to me.
Many government agencies take care of the water ,sewerage, waste and other lots of other functions. It is not true they do not do work. they do it well and a damn sight cheaper that contractors.When a tree falls around here ,the city removes it in hours.Our fire department still puts out fires. Our police department is still not privatized.
Last I checked the current economic crisis isn’t a tangible good.
The notion that public anger is the result of class envy or misguided populism minimizes the systemic corruption in corporate governance and the U.S. government.
I don’t understand the skill set exclusive to CEOs that causes a limited talent pool. I am not even sure what a CEO contributes to society that is more valuable than leaders in public institutions or a college professor. Undoubtedly, corporate executives deserve to be well compensated and the job is stressful, but the compensation far exceeds what the CEO contributes to the firm and what other professions contribute to society.
The top American CEOs are a small closed group and identify more with each other than the company. Executives negotiate compensation up front, including golden parachutes and stock options, and select who sits on the compensation board. There is a shared benefit for peers on a compensation board to approve high compensation. The same top CEOs are shuffled among the top companies and sit on each others compensation boards. There is strong evidence that norms established by the CEOs not a limited talent pool determine CEO wages.
Excessive CEO compensation and the increase in corporate control fraud is an issue of corporate governance. Stock holders of large publically traded companies don’t have the power to control corporate boards. Therefore, it is not only appropriate but the responsibility of the government to establish some type of oversight, strong rules, and severe consequences when those rules are violated.
The majority of executives responsible for the economic catastrophe are still in charge of the financial institutions. It is demoralizing to expect the American public to pay billions in bonuses and maintain the excessive salaries of the very people responsible for the destruction. If CEOs don’t like the arrangement, maybe it is time to outsource.
Wrong. Why is it in every one of the current running threads on this subject people continue to spout this falsehood?
The Compensation Committee of the BOD is chosen by the Board, not the CEO. The membership is public, interlocks are easily viewed, and the total compensation of the top 5 company officers and the compensation of the BOD itself is publicly available data.
Once again for those wish to understand how executive compensation at publicly traded companies works:
CEO compensation at a public company is set by the compensation committee of the Board of Directors. The membership of that committee is disclosed in the Proxy. For example, Apple Computer:
The members of Apple’s Comp Committee:
Finally, since someone here will always bring up that everyone takes care of each other:
So the CEO does NOT set his own pay, nor does he set his own bonus or stock awards. He can negotiate for higher pay, he can hire a compensation consultant to argue on his behalf, he can purchase enough shares to swing the vote - but he does not set his own pay.
Merrill Execs Pay Selves Bonuses Ahead of Schedule (and Before BofA Closing) | naked capitalism Just fair and above board aren’t they. Merrill was being bought out after LOSING 21 BILLION the last quarter. They usually pay bonuses in Jan. But Citi was taking them over then. The compensation committee met early and rewarded almost 4 billion in bonuses. The above board, beyond control ,completely fair board met early and gave away 4 bill.
Wait what?
The thread you’re posting in is about no talent hacks masquerading as CEOs and running companies, and all the employees who depend on their jobs at these companies, into the ground. Then getting huge bonuses for their masturbation.
You conservatives think that’s valuable? Ya’ll have very odd definitions of valuable I have to say.
The point of a safety net is if some CEO such as the current crop of inbred retards, misfortune, bad luck, or even bad choices puts you in a bad place you survive at a basic level till you can recover.
It’s an artificial rock bottom.
Take another way. A safety net means no American would have to live on street, face bankruptcy, crippling condition or death for lack of medical coverage, or go hungry for lack of basic food. It needn’t mean anything more.
It doesn’t mean a car, it doesn’t mean anything better then wal-mart clearance prices clothes, section 8 housing, cheap basic food, and educational opportunities to improve their place in life so they don’t need the 'net.
Trust me I grew up that poor. Anyone who’d stay that poor out of choice isn’t someone you’d want in the work force anyway.
Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power The distribution of wealth in America has become as distorted as the Gilded Age. I do not know how the conservatives think the private sector is better at allocating wealth and resources.
Apple doesn’t have a good track record. Steve Jobs was awarded millions in stock options at a board of directors meeting that never took place.
You didn’t provide a source for the information quoted in your post.
Here is what I found with Google.
It is called the Def-14 A and is filed with the SEC, it is also known as the proxy (as I stated).
Anyone who is SERIOUS about understanding executive pay goes their first. I notice that you could not refute anything that I posted.
To save you one more Google:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312508010038/ddef14a.htm
The compensation committee is chosen by the board. So, the board works with the CEOs. Do you think that is an adversarial relationship. They have interlocking boards and interlocking thieves.
I know a guy who works for a compensation committee. He says what they do is dig up what other execs are making and they use that for a start in wages. That is not a system that will hold down wages.
Interlocks are reported as required by the SEC. If you **know **of a BOD with such horrible interlocks, please let me know. I will run a check and report back here with what I find through a review of the filed reports, similar to what I posted for Apple as an example.
There is no digging required - it is all publicly available information. That is part of why there is accelaration in pay. If everyone knew what their job paid at other firms, you would see similar pay movements in other jobs.
As for adversarial - it is as adversarial as most jobs. I do not have an adversarial relationship with my CEO, though I report to him. If my performance drops, I am fired. I have a severance clause in my contract. I have change-in-control provisions for my options. I have shares in the firm granted to me as well. All of this I negotiated for, because I knew what I was worth in the marketplace and I knew many of the ways a company could screw me.
CEO’s benefit from transparent information, and knowledge of the game. That is not criminal. If you wish to complain, the real target should be the comp committee and the BOD for not doing their job.
Any one involved in losing these sums of money is either an incompetent or a crook. Self-evidently.
Right, and the Liberal response is always salary caps, more regulation, and wealth redistribution.
I’m not opposed to smart regulation. However the more regulation, the more you suck wealth away from companies that actually produce goods and services and give it to lawyers, accountants and “compliance experts” who produce nothing but paperwork.
[gonzomax = quote]
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html The distribution of wealth in America has become as distorted as the Gilded Age. I do not know how the conservatives think the private sector is better at allocating wealth and resources.
[/quote]
Because wealth and resources are created and acquired by the private sector, not by government.
gonzomax http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html The distribution of wealth in America has become as distorted as the Gilded Age. I do not know how the conservatives think the private sector is better at allocating wealth and resources.
That is a hyperbolic and unsupported conservative assumption. Conservative ‘Business as Usual’ has bought the economy to its knees. Conservatives have lost any right they had to pontificate.