# "No censorship under any circumstances." Agree? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910 "2012-09-26T17:59:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/1 "2012-09-26T17:59:32Z")
Or, as a Slashdot user put it in a discussion about a Brazilian judge’s rulings against Google and YouTube: “There should be no criminal penalties on any speech, information, or data transmitted from anyone, to anyone.” Assume this is, as the writer asserts, a full and firm expression of this particular user’s beliefs (no additional caveats, no other explanation than what’s there, nothing). Do you agree? Why (not)? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/2 "2012-09-26T18:05:34Z")
Disagree. Child Porn. National Security. Trade Secrets. Copyright. HIPAA. Identity theft. Fraud. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/3 "2012-09-26T18:10:25Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Disagree. Child Porn. National Security. Trade Secrets. Copyright. HIPAA. Identity theft. Fraud. Etc. What Oak said. Also, I’d add a few more. If it were practical in the internet age (it obviously isn’t), I’d have no problem prohibiting the publishing of Kate Middleton’s boobs, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/4 "2012-09-26T18:21:03Z")
There are plenty of people who want to eliminate patents and copyrights. There are plenty of people who want completely open government. There are plenty of people who believe that no form of pornography should be illegal to possess (note I said possess, not necessarily produce). And as for crime, well, no one’s asked the original poster about that, but I’d assume he assumes that both sides know full well what they’re both giving and receiving (but, of course, his firmness in expressing the quote above doesn’t leave a lot of room, I’ll admit). Taking the value of stuff like copyrights as a given doesn’t necessarily track, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/5 "2012-09-26T18:24:42Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Disagree. Child Porn. National Security. Trade Secrets. Copyright. HIPAA. Identity theft. Fraud. Etc. I also agree with this. A question for **Skald** : Are you opposed to publishing boobs in general, Kate Middleton in general, or specifically Kate Middleton’s boobs? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/6 "2012-09-26T18:26:01Z")
I am not saying I wouldn’t have a problem with some of the outcome, but I think ultimately I agree with him and for a simple reason. All information can be reduced to a number, and I don’t think you should be banning numbers. That’s madness. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/7 "2012-09-26T18:27:24Z")
Disagree. Slander and libel. And what **Oakminster** said, although I’d bet we’d disagree on exactly what falls under those categories. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/8 "2012-09-26T18:32:28Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > I also agree with this. > > A question for **Skald** : Are you opposed to publishing boobs in general, Kate Middleton in general, or specifically Kate Middleton’s boobs? I am against the publication of photos of boobs when the owner of said boobs did not consent to be photographed. It’s part of my new non-asshole policy. > [@Leaper](#): > > There are plenty of people who want to eliminate patents and copyrights. Yes, there are. Those are people who don’t want to pay creative people for their work for whatever reason. Please note that I’m not saying that copyright should be eternal; the extent corporations like Disney have taken them too is frankly ridiculous. But there should be a mechanism to allow writers, musicians, and other artists to be paid for their work. > [@](#): > > There are plenty of people who want completely open government. I would like completely open government, and also a pet manticore. (Well, not a pet.) > [@](#): > > There are plenty of people who believe that no form of pornography should be illegal to possess (note I said possess, not necessarily produce) . How does person A _possess_ child porn without person B producing it? That said, I wouldn’t outlaw the possession of purely textual pornography of any stripe–just that which by definition involves doing harm to children. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/9 "2012-09-26T18:55:52Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How does person A _possess_ child porn without person B producing it? To clarify, I meant that the argument seems to be that only person B should get into trouble, and not person A. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/10 "2012-09-26T19:00:41Z")
Another one who disagrees. If copyright ceased to exist then many people wouldn’t bother writing books or musc etc. and we would be he losers. Also it shouldn’t be permitted to tell people how to make poison, commit murder, make explosives, nuclear weapons etc And of course as previously stated theres libel, and also hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/11 "2012-09-26T19:00:58Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > There are plenty of people who want to eliminate patents and copyrights. Thieves, and other people who hate artists. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/12 "2012-09-26T19:43:35Z")
Even if you get past things like copyright infringement and national security, the term “under any circumstances” is extraordinarily broad. Personally, I think people should be allowed to espouse disgusting racist opinions. But then, I don’t live in Germany. Germany has laws against displaying Nazi symbols, laws that trace back to the denazification of post-war Germany. And you know what, I’m not sure they’re wrong. It was hard enough to kill the Nazis the first time around. I don’t necessarily know better than the Germans do about whether there’s value in that sort of law there. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/13 "2012-09-26T20:05:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Personally, I think people should be allowed to espouse disgusting racist opinions. But then, I don’t live in Germany. Germany has laws against displaying Nazi symbols, laws that trace back to the denazification of post-war Germany. And you know what, I’m not sure they’re wrong. It was hard enough to kill the Nazis the first time around. I don’t necessarily know better than the Germans do about whether there’s value in that sort of law there. Limiting the free expression of ideas is one of the methods Nazis employed to come to and hold power. It’s never right. Period. And in this case I find it horribly ironic. “Gosh those bastard Nazis silencing dissenting voices!” “I know, let’s silence dissenting voices!” I truly believe that freedom of speech (or things that derive from that right) is pretty much the ONLY thing that truly sets us apart from some of the most horrible places/cultures on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/14 "2012-09-26T20:16:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am against the publication of photos of boobs when the owner of said boobs did not consent to be photographed. It’s part of my new non-asshole policy. Okay, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/15 "2012-09-26T20:19:48Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I am not saying I wouldn’t have a problem with some of the outcome, but I think ultimately I agree with him and for a simple reason. All information can be reduced to a number, and I don’t think you should be banning numbers. That’s madness. Your credit card numbers, social security number, street address, DOB, bank account and routing numbers are just numbers. Feel like allowing anyone to have those? Slee ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/16 "2012-09-26T20:24:48Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/17 "2012-09-26T20:29:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am against the publication of photos of boobs when the owner of said boobs did not consent to be photographed. Fair enough, but can we add “naked pregnant celebrities on magazine covers,” with or without consent? Yes yes, pregnancy is beautiful, miracle of life and all that, but come on. Enough already. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/18 "2012-09-26T20:32:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Fair enough, but can we add “naked pregnant celebrities on magazine covers,” with or without consent? [humorless pedant] No. That is an entirely different issue. Whatever discomfort you may feel from briefly noticing Jessica Simpson naked and gravid can be dealt with by simply turning away. Comparing that to the invasion of a person’s privacy by publishing naked pictures of him or her is silly. [/humorless pedant] ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/19 "2012-09-26T20:45:08Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Your credit card numbers, social security number, street address, DOB, bank account and routing numbers are just numbers. Feel like allowing anyone to have those? > > Slee No but I think the idea of banning numbers is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910/20 "2012-09-26T20:49:28Z")
Rather than censorship, I would prefer civil liabilities after the fact. I would be uncomfortable with a government that was powerful enough to prevent something slanderous from being published. I prefer, instead, a system of courts that imposes penalties, including punitive damages, in order to “send a signal” to others that this is a damn stupid thing to do. Not until you get down to immediately harmful publication – military secrets for instance – can I find any comfort at all in tolerating censorship. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-censorship-under-any-circumstances-agree/635910.md?page=2)