# No CLASS Obama! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769 "2011-10-15T23:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/41 "2011-10-16T15:14:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I’m still not seeing what the topic for debate is. _SIGH_ Congress should not have passed the CLASS Act. Discuss. Or: Resolved: Congress should not have passed the CLASS Act. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/42 "2011-10-16T15:18:07Z")
I think they had a “pass it now and fix it later,” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/43 "2011-10-16T15:40:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My fifth grade son accurately identified the problem with the program when it’s provisions were described to him. > [@Bricker](#): > > But given the fact that lack of financial viability under these terms was a foregone conclusion, the passage of the law was an exercise in futility. So, at what point did your child prodigy identify the lack of financial viability? Was it at the time the act was being debated, or was it after the administration withdrew support for it? For that matter, are you on record with your own foregone conclusion for CLASS at the time the act was being debated? Easy to say it now, not so prescient if you said nothing two years ago. And general opposition to the whole health care reform act doesn’t count; show us where you specifically opposed CLASS at the time. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/44 "2011-10-16T15:43:24Z")
If the people are going to cost BRICKER money, they should be prepared to die. Even a 5th grader could figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/45 "2011-10-16T16:01:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So, at what point did your child prodigy identify the lack of financial viability? Was it at the time the act was being debated, or was it after the administration withdrew support for it? For that matter, are you on record with your own foregone conclusion for CLASS at the time the act was being debated? Easy to say it now, not so prescient if you said nothing two years ago. And general opposition to the whole health care reform act doesn’t count; show us where you specifically opposed CLASS at the time. He says > [@](#): > > My fifth grade son accurately identified the problem with the program when it’s provisions were described to him. Which I assumed meant: Bricker browbeat the boy into looking up from his video game and saying, “sure, dad, whatever.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/46 "2011-10-16T16:09:40Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If the people are going to cost BRICKER money, they should be prepared to die. Even a 5th grader could figure that out. They cost me money too, and all the other people who bought insurance. We were told it would create a savings. It did not. It’s easy to spend other people’s money. It’s even easier to pass that obligation on to generation after generation. Maybe the 5th graders don’t want your share of the debt. Ever think of that? You’re certainly not going to pay for it. The CLASS part of the bill was bogus math from day one. It was not a guaranteed revenue stream and as such was the devil in the detail. And here we are, 3 years of hope and change later. This is what you get when people rush through legislation before really hashing it out. When you consider how much money is represented in the legislation, how far in debt we already are, and how integrated the policy links us to the government, it represents the single most important piece of legislation in the history of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/47 "2011-10-16T16:13:04Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Which I assumed meant: Bricker browbeat the boy into looking up from his video game and saying, “sure, dad, whatever.” Actually some parents are capable of teaching their children basic financial responsibility. It’s what got me through 3 1/2 years of unemployment. I suspect Bricker’s kid will be hiring your kid to mow his lawn. Gosh it’s fun attacking other poster’s children. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/48 "2011-10-16T16:14:37Z")
So which Fox talking head highlighted CLASS last week? When all our conservatives start barking in unison, you know someone is blowing a whistle somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/49 "2011-10-16T16:25:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Actually some parents are capable of teaching their children basic financial responsibility. It’s what got me through 3 1/2 years of unemployment. > > I suspect Bricker’s kid will be hiring your kid to mow his lawn. > > Gosh it’s fun attacking other poster’s children. Did you really think that was an attack on his son? Because I don’t assume he was poring over the details of the health care plan on his own and deriving independent conclusions uncoached by Bricker? No, I was just apply Occam’s razor to Bricker’s self-serving anecdote. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/50 "2011-10-16T16:28:11Z")
I just explained all of this to my 13-month old son, and he said “hat hat hat!” which is obvious agreement with my own rather nuanced opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/51 "2011-10-16T16:30:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s easy to spend other people’s money. It’s even easier to post misguided ideological harangues without responding to criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/52 "2011-10-16T16:37:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So which Fox talking head highlighted CLASS last week? When all our conservatives start barking in unison, you know someone is blowing a whistle somewhere. Oh that’s classic. Blame fox for a Democratic legislation failure. Lets see: [ABC](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/obama-administration-pulls-the-plug-on-long-term-care-program/) [CBS](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/14/ap/health/main20120754.shtml) NBC They’re all against him. insert Mr. Bill Noooooooo here. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/53 "2011-10-16T16:39:51Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It’s even easier to post misguided ideological harangues without responding to criticism. so it’s ideological to operate within a budget? Really? Better tell the Democrats in the Tea Party that. Maybe if you would open your eyes you’d see that the well entrenched Republicans are getting shit from the Tea Party also. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/54 "2011-10-16T16:46:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So it’s ideological to operate within a budget? No, of course not. Do you even know what the responses to your bromides are? You’re that far removed from mainstream discourse and the content of this very thread? It would be a useful intellectual exercise for you to at least try to understand what the other side has to say. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/55 "2011-10-16T16:51:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > No, of course not. Do you even know what the responses to your bromides are? You’re that far removed from mainstream discourse and the content of this very thread? It would be a useful intellectual exercise for you to at least try to understand what the other side has to say. When the other side can do 5th grade math we would all be on the same page. It’s not like Gingrich wasn’t talking about a Republican alternative after it was shot down last time under Clinton. It has to be financially viable. It really is that simple. Everybody would be happy. Can you not see the world is teetering on financial collapse? It’s a house of cards. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/56 "2011-10-16T17:36:50Z")
So, it couldn’t go forward unless she signed off, and she refused. Bush would have fired her and put in somebody who would sign it. Hell, he never would have hired somebody that honest to begin with! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/57 "2011-10-16T17:54:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When the other side can do 5th grade math we would all be on the same page. You’re living in a fantasy world of your own feverish making. There’s no sense arguing about reality when your perception is that this represented a failure of basic math. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/58 "2011-10-16T17:56:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, it couldn’t go forward unless she signed off, and she refused. Bush would have fired her and put in somebody who would sign it. Hell, he never would have hired somebody that honest to begin with! As honest as Hillary? That’s funny. This was a woman who sold short on pharmaceuticals while attacking them in the press. She’s as honest as the day is purple. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/59 "2011-10-16T18:14:46Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > He says > > Which I assumed meant: Bricker browbeat the boy into looking up from his video game and saying, “sure, dad, whatever.” And why would you assume that? What possible evidence could you have relied upon to reach this conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769/60 "2011-10-16T18:19:00Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Did you really think that was an attack on his son? Because I don’t assume he was poring over the details of the health care plan on his own and deriving independent conclusions uncoached by Bricker? No, I was just apply Occam’s razor to Bricker’s self-serving anecdote. Ok, more facts, some of which were already adduced in this thread. We were eating dinner. CNN was on and ran the story of the concession that CLASS was unworkable. He was listening and at the conclusion of the story said, “Duh,” unprompted by anyone. I asked him what he meant. He replied as related in the OP. Given these additional facts, would you care to revise your assumption? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-class-obama/599769.md?page=4)