# No common ground left to stand on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639 "2019-11-19T02:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/41 "2019-11-19T17:46:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It’s not that the don’t care attitude is driving their decisions. Its that the things that some people think that the things that are important to them should also be important to everyone else and a lot of people don’t really give a shit about the things that keep you up at night. > > They have reasons for liking Trump: > > (i) he is nominating conservative judges, > (ii) he is engaging China on trade (which poor whites see as helping them), > (iii) he is clamping down on immigration (which poor whites see as helping them), > (iv) he is telling the PC police to go suck eggs (which poor whites see as sticking up for them), > (v) he is isolationist, > (vi) he is pissing off liberals. > > And none of the reasons liberals think you should hate Trump are very convincing to them. And I’d add that he got us out of Paris and says he doesn’t believe in climate change. Doing something about climate change would involve deliberately driving energy costs into the stratosphere with carbon taxes and/or getting the government involved in our daily lives (EPA mileage) and light bulb ban, anyone) > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You can only dump on poor white people as a group for so long before they start to feel like maybe you don’t care about them. Yup. The “Racist bitter basket of deplorables that cling to guns an religion” got tired of being at best completely ignored and at worst called nasty names spoke at the last election. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/42 "2019-11-19T17:47:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It seems insufficient to simply dismiss him as some inconsequential dotard, especially since his words and actions have actual consequences, and resonate with ~63M voters. It seems insufficient to YOU. To me, it seems sufficient. And I didn’t, and wouldn’t, vote for him. But it also seems sufficient to 63M voters. Like I said in my post quoted in the OP - say it aloud as many times as you need to - “I Don’t Care” The President insulted Nancy Pelosi on Twitter? I don’t care. The President said something completely untrue during a speech? I don’t care. The President made some wild, outlandish claims during a press conference? I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/43 "2019-11-19T17:55:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But are those things\* really \*good for them? I don’t know. THEY seem to think they are. Obviously you disagree, but the problem is your view on what is or isn’t good for them is from your perspective. And at least one of them probably IS good for the country as a whole, if he just wasn’t so stupid in how he’s doing it. > [@](#): > > Progressives want to give poor whites healthcare, affordable education, career training for th 21st century. But all they want is conservative judges? Problem is, ‘poor whites’ don’t necessarily believe they can get those things, or that progressives actually want to give THEM those things…or that they even can GIVE those things to them or anyone else. Hell, I’m not convinced that those things are progressives to give to anyone either, and I’m much more sympathetic to at least a liberal point of view than most of the folks under discussion. There is also the fact that many progressives look down on ‘poor white’ people, or at least’poor white’ folks THINK they do…which gets back to the first part I responded to here, which has to do with perception. As to the OP: > [@](#): > > A) Don’t care: This is one about who’s gore is being oxed, really. There are a lot of things that rile folks up on this board that I really don’t care about. A lot of what Trump does that riles folks up on this board that I don’t care about. Conversely, there are a lot of issues that DO rile me up that I care about quite a lot and I’ve found that people on this board don’t really care about. China, for instance, and what they are and have been doing is a serious concern to me. When I’ve started threads on it, it’s be more meh type responses, however. People care more about what Trump is doing than what is happening outside of the Trump bubble. I will say that many of the things Trump has done HAS riled me up. The issue I have is that in some cases I feel like some folks who are equally riled up (say, about the Kurds cluster fuck) are riled up more because it was Trump than because of the actual issue. Same goes for many other things that Trump has or is doing that folks get outraged about. I feel, often, that they are outraged because it’s Trump, but not because of what’s actually happening. > [@](#): > > B) No common ground: I think there is common ground, but often people, especially on this board, want to parse things down so that we are splitting hairs to the point that we are fighting even when we are essentially on the same page, though perhaps for different reasons. There is a lot of that going around, to the point I’ve stepped out of many discussions. Hell, I get hammered on points of ridiculous minutia by folks I essentially agree with because I’m not fervent enough, and not one of the faithful. More broadly, this again gets into who’s gore is being oxed wrt how much someone cares about something, and what’s important to them. It also gets into details that might differ, even if more broadly there is agreement. For example, I think there is some common ground about healthcare wrt everyone knows that the US healthcare system is broken and has major, systemic problems. The disagreements come in how to solve those problems and give the American people the best product for the money that people are actually willing to pony up and spend. So, in summary…common ground is there, it’s just that this doesn’t mean in lockstep about every point nor in lockstep about what can or should be done across the board. If you parse things fine enough, there isn’t really ‘common ground’ even between liberals and progressives, or even all progressives. So, you need to broaden your view wrt what ground IS actually common, and where the disagreements are. If this is all about Trump, there is common ground between myself and many on this board…but many differences on what the most egregious issues are and how best to rectify them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/44 "2019-11-19T18:00:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t think anyone is blaming the problems with Trump’s administration on Twitter. Not sure what that has to do with what I posted. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/45 "2019-11-19T18:05:56Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > And I’d add that he got us out of Paris and says he doesn’t believe in climate change. Doing something about climate change would involve deliberately driving energy costs into the stratosphere with carbon taxes and/or getting the government involved in our daily lives (EPA mileage) and light bulb ban, anyone) Can you provide some examples of how alternative, renewable energy sources would be harmful to humanity? It seems to me that lower dependence of fossil fuels would drive prices down, not up. This is evidenced by the relatively low oil prices around the world and lower production. The fact that coal prices have fallen through the floor and caused the coal industry to scale back dramatically on production is another indicator that we are decreasing our dependence on fossil fuels and that is not causing a stratospheric rise in prices. Finally, there has been no “ban on light bulbs” and it would behoove everyone not to repeat foolish rumors. > [@Mdcastle](#): > > Yup. The “Racist bitter basket of deplorables that cling to guns an religion” got tired of being at best completely ignored and at worst called nasty names spoke at the last election. Well, now your voices are receiving prominence. What is it that you’d like everyone to hear? I hope you didn’t rise up just to say you, “Don’t Care”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/46 "2019-11-19T18:08:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems insufficient to YOU. To me, it seems sufficient. And I didn’t, and wouldn’t, vote for him. But it also seems sufficient to 63M voters. > > Like I said in my post quoted in the OP - say it aloud as many times as you need to - “I Don’t Care” > > The President insulted Nancy Pelosi on Twitter? I don’t care. > > The President said something completely untrue during a speech? I don’t care. > > The President made some wild, outlandish claims during a press conference? I don’t care. Your personal position on the subject has been duly noted: _You_, personally, are unaffected by what the president says or does. Thank you for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/47 "2019-11-19T18:15:37Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Your personal position on the subject has been duly noted: _You_, personally, are unaffected by what the president says or does. Thank you for sharing. That’s not what I said. I’ve said nothing about what the President **does**. And I find it highly unlikely that you are personally affected by anything the President simply says via some form of media. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/48 "2019-11-19T18:20:10Z")
Another related factor, I think, is that many young Americans are being taught these days what is right and wrong (racism is wrong, bigotry is wrong, sexism is wrong, etc. etc.), but they aren’t being taught how to effectively communicate, or make a persuasive case for their side. So when they are confronted by real-life examples of racism or sexism, they have little resort but to scream, “RACIST! SEXIST!” etc., which, while perhaps technically accurate, isn’t a persuasive form of communication, nor does it win votes. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/49 "2019-11-19T18:20:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Well, now your voices are receiving prominence. What is it that you’d like everyone to hear? I hope you didn’t rise up just to say you, “Don’t Care”. Give us a chance to work had and be able to support a family working in the mines, the steel mills, the auto plants (with healthcare with shorter wait times than what the government would provide) rather than degrading and humiliating us by offering us government handouts. Stop throwing open the prison doors to release criminals to prey on us, then try to take our guns so we can’t defend ourselves against those criminals. Slow down immigration until every American that needs a job has one. Pay attention to our pain instead of deciding the name of a lake or a sports team is politically incorrect and is a hot priority to change or that we should be held accountable for something our ancestors that have been dead for generations did. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/50 "2019-11-19T18:27:21Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > The whole wanting to piss off liberals is another aspect I don’t get. How does that benefit the person who holds that view? Schadenfreude is deep, ingrained, natural human sentiment. If you hate/dislike Category X of people, you probably, on some level, enjoy it when they suffer. That’s all there is to it. Many sports fans enjoy the misery of rival fans almost as much as they enjoy their own joy of winning. At the risk of pulling a “Both sides do it,” I remember liberals gleefully sharing photos of crying Romney voters after Election Night 2012. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/51 "2019-11-19T18:30:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I don’t know. THEY seem to think they are. Obviously you disagree, but the problem is your view on what is or isn’t good for them is from your perspective. And at least one of them probably IS good for the country as a whole, if he just wasn’t so stupid in how he’s doing it. By analogy: I might think that a Ketogenic diet is good for me because I’ve lost a ton of weight and I do love my protein. My cardiologist has an entirely different opinion when he tests my cholesterol levels and does a calcium scan image of my heart. One of us has a more informed opinion on my state of health. (That’s a hypothetical. Please don’t worry. I’m in perfect health and eat a balanced diet.) > [@XT](#): > > Problem is, ‘poor whites’ don’t necessarily believe they can get those things, or that progressives actually want to give THEM those things…or that they even can GIVE those things to them or anyone else. Hell, I’m not convinced that those things are progressives to give to anyone either, and I’m much more sympathetic to at least a liberal point of view than most of the folks under discussion. There is also the fact that many progressives look down on ‘poor white’ people, or at least’poor white’ folks THINK they do…which gets back to the first part I responded to here, which has to do with perception. They are objectively wrong. Universal Healthcare covers everyone, regardless of your social status or party affiliation. It’s in the name. I’m not looking for an argument on the two points above. I’m trying to understand why Trump voters hold the “Don’t care” attitude and deny certain facts out of pure spite. Let me put it another way… I don’t oppose child separation because I want to deny folks opposed to immigration the opportunity to prevent illegal immigration. I oppose it because it is a cruel policy. I suspect you see my point. I’m trying to understand why Trump supporters can’t/won’t. Unless it’s simply that they “don’t care”. Rinse, repeat, as \*\*manson1972 \*\*suggests. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/52 "2019-11-19T18:32:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s not what I said. I’ve said nothing about what the President **does**. > > And I find it highly unlikely that you are personally affected by anything the President simply says via some form of media. You really are working hard to split hairs and I’m not sure I have the patience for it. I’m sorry if that sounds curt or blunt. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/53 "2019-11-19T18:34:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You really are working hard to split hairs and I’m not sure I have the patience for it. I’m sorry if that sounds curt or blunt. Sorry, I know you are asking in good faith. I just wanted to make it clear I was only speaking about “verbal statements” from the President. I do actually care about what he DOES. Of course, I’m not a Trump supporter, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/54 "2019-11-19T18:49:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If they don’t give a shit about climate change, why take an opposing position at all? I don’t understand this mindset. If you don’t give a shit about climate change and I say we should pass a law that makes everything more expensive and disrupts our economy, then do you support or oppose my efforts? > [@](#): > > But are those things\* really \*good for them? A good argument can be made that the value of manual labor in America has suffered because anything that can be outsourced has been outsourced and that anything that cannot be outsourced has been filled by cheap illegal immigrant labor. Is affirmative action _really_ good for poor white liberal males? > [@](#): > > Progressives want to give poor whites healthcare, affordable education, career training for th 21st century. But all they want is conservative judges? Conservatives want conservative judges. Poor whites want other stuff. Mostly they want someone on their side. It may not be a fair assessment but progressives seem much more interested in social justice than white people. More interested in the struggles of gay, minorities, etc. They want to be protected from labor competition by foreigners. Regardless of whether that comes in the form of outsourcing or illegal immigrant labor. And health care is popular among poor whites. So is the idea of free tuition. They love free stuff as much as the next guy. The namecalling and acucusations of racism, etc. they can do without. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/55 "2019-11-19T18:57:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Another related factor, I think, is that many young Americans are being taught these days what is right and wrong (racism is wrong, bigotry is wrong, sexism is wrong, etc. etc.), but they aren’t being taught how to effectively communicate, or make a persuasive case for their side. > > So when they are confronted by real-life examples of racism or sexism, they have little resort but to scream, “RACIST! SEXIST!” etc., which, while perhaps technically accurate, isn’t a persuasive form of communication, nor does it win votes. We have taught them that screaming “racist” and “sexist” is effective. It is frequently used as a cudgel against people who disagree with them and this happen frequently enough that the words have lost much of their meaning. And it’s not a new phenomenon. This has been going on for generations, it’s just become somewhat ridiculous lately. Political correctness is fascism disguised as manners - George Carlin ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/56 "2019-11-19T18:58:52Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Give us a chance to work had and be able to support a family working in the mines, the steel mills, the auto plants (with healthcare with shorter wait times than what the government would provide) rather than degrading and humiliating us by offering us government handouts. Stop throwing open the prison doors to release criminals to prey on us, then try to take our guns so we can’t defend ourselves against those criminals. Slow down immigration until every American that needs a job has one. Pay attention to our pain instead of deciding the name of a lake or a sports team is politically incorrect and is a hot priority to change or that we should be held accountable for something our ancestors that have been dead for generations did. Okay. Good. Now we’re talking. I would love, LOVE, to assure you that the way of life you’re parents have known will remain unchanged for you and your children. Hell, I’d love to be assured of that myself and for my own children. Reality demands otherwise. I’ve experienced upheaval in my own career path and have had to adapt and adjust my own expectations. There were times when I wasn’t sure I’d be able to recover from the setbacks. I’m sorry. I wish there was a better answer, for all of us. Universal healthcare and affordable education is not a handout. It should be a basic human right in a country as wealthy as ours. There are democracies around the world that achieve this goal and their citizens thrive without feeling like beggars. Because they actually pay for these shared benefits through taxes. If you can view that gun ownership is a human right, why is it so difficult to imagine that healthcare, education, clean water and air are also a human right? With respect to criminal law, were you opposed to the First Steps law, signed by Trump? Or do you primarily see this as the fault of liberals? I’m for sensible reform of immigration laws. I’d like to see large corporations punished for encouraging illegal immigration by hiring cheap illegal laborers. Is there common ground for agreement here for us? I’d like to understand more about the pain you feel which is caused by the suggestion to rename a sports team. Would the enjoyment of the game be less if it was the Washington RedBeards? I’m curious because I follow a sport where team names change from year to year and I still love watching my favorite athletes compete on the world stage despite the team name changes. Do we have common ground? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/57 "2019-11-19T19:00:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, I know you are asking in good faith. I just wanted to make it clear I was only speaking about “verbal statements” from the President. I do actually care about what he DOES. Of course, I’m not a Trump supporter, so there’s that. Understood. No offense taken. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/58 "2019-11-19T19:11:41Z")
I think your confused with a person being a “Trump supporter” and a person who voted for him because quite frankly, Hillary sucked even worse. I mean I didnt like Bush either but I detested Al Gore and John Kerry equal or more. So maybe we should turn this around and you try to explain how Hillary was so darn awesome, why the DNC leadership told us to shut up and vote Hillary and we get no other damn choice, and the current crop of dems offers anything better for 2020? Quite frankly the democrats deserved to lose in 2016 because they offered just ONE candidate (remember Sanders wrote himself in) and one who hardly even campaigned and when she did she did a lousy job. PS. I actually did like Sanders and would have voted for him but the DNC said hell no. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/59 "2019-11-19T19:22:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you don’t give a shit about climate change and I say we should pass a law that makes everything more expensive and disrupts our economy, then do you support or oppose my efforts? There is no evidence that supporting alternative fuels disrupts the economy. Is a quickly growing new industry that offers jobs with a long future. So I don’t accept this premise and neither should you or those who support Trump. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A good argument can be made that the value of manual labor in America has suffered because anything that can be outsourced has been outsourced and that anything that cannot be outsourced has been filled by cheap illegal immigrant labor. > Is affirmative action _really_ good for poor white liberal males? “Affirmative Action” in this context is a non-sequitor and possibly a dog whistle. So I reject it thus. As to outsourced jobs, I’m afraid this is a result of the global economy. Republicans are every bit to blame for it as well as Democrats. Yet, somehow they have not lost support. Please explain that dissonance to me. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Conservatives want conservative judges. > > Poor whites want other stuff. Mostly they want someone on their side. > > It may not be a fair assessment but progressives seem much more interested in social justice than white people. More interested in the struggles of gay, minorities, etc. I’m “white people” and I’m progressive and I support social justice and human rights. I’m reasonably sure there are others like me. You must mean some specific subset of “white people” that have other interests. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And health care is popular among poor whites. So is the idea of free tuition. They love free stuff as much as the next guy. The namecalling and acucusations of racism, etc. they can do without. \*\*MDcastle \*\*stated that he/she doesn’t want handouts. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/60 "2019-11-19T19:24:08Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I think your confused with a person being a “Trump supporter” and a person who voted for him because quite frankly, Hillary sucked even worse. > > I mean I didnt like Bush either but I detested Al Gore and John Kerry equal or more. > > So maybe we should turn this around and you try to explain how Hillary was so darn awesome, why the DNC leadership told us to shut up and vote Hillary and we get no other damn choice, and the current crop of dems offers anything better for 2020? > > Quite frankly the democrats deserved to lose in 2016 because they offered just ONE candidate (remember Sanders wrote himself in) and one who hardly even campaigned and when she did she did a lousy job. > > PS. I actually did like Sanders and would have voted for him but the DNC said hell no. With all due respect, please don’t derail this conversation. Feel free to start your own thread. ETA: But feel free to stay and explain why the derailment with the introduction of HRC or Obama is such an easy go to for Trump voters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639.md?page=4)