# No common ground left to stand on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639 "2019-11-19T02:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/141 "2019-11-22T18:31:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Rival gangs… > > Jets v. Sharks… > > You know, movie/play themes. Your turn to google stuff. Pretty sure West Side Story did not take place in a prison colony. Great idea for a re-imagined staging though. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/142 "2019-11-22T18:33:34Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Pretty sure West Side Story did not take place in a prison colony. Great idea for a re-imagined staging though. Ahem. “Rival gangs”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/143 "2019-11-22T18:34:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Goddamnit, **manson1972**! On a Friday afternoon… :smack: > 😉 You could always hum 1877kars4kids to yourself as a way to pass the time. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/144 "2019-11-22T18:37:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Ahem. “Rival gangs”. Ahem. Your example of rival gangs doesn’t tie to your original likening of this place to a prison colony. Poor choice on your part. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/145 "2019-11-22T18:41:02Z")
Nope. Humming, “Maria”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/146 "2019-11-22T18:42:20Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Ahem. Your example of rival gangs doesn’t tie to your original likening of this place to a prison colony. Poor choice on your part. I just can’t with you. Serenity Now. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/147 "2019-11-22T18:49:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I can understand the “don’t care” mentality. The thing I can’t understand how Trump has been able to tap into it. > > You have a group of people who hate politics and think all politics is corrupt. They don’t know or care anything about the economy, the environment, foreign policy, or legal issues. > > **How does Trump connect with these people and get them to register and vote? How do you create a movement around people whose core identity is they don’t believe in movements?** [Hicks] There’s a new party being born: The People Who Hate People Party. People who hate people, come together! “No!” We’re kind of having trouble getting off the boards, you know. Come to our meeting! “Are you gonna be there?” Yeah. “Then I ain’t fucking coming.” But you’re our strongest member! “Fuck you!” That’s what I’m talking about, you asshole. “Fuck off!” Damn, we almost had a meeting going. It’s so hard to get my people together. [/Hicks] ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/148 "2019-11-22T18:51:57Z")
Turns out, they love red caps. You can fill arenas if you give 'em red caps. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/149 "2019-11-22T19:20:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Nope. Humming, “Maria”. Now if you had used Suka v. Thieves in Law, that would have been a good example, given your original comparison of the board to a prison colony. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/150 "2019-11-22T20:42:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, I generally consider Preisdent Trump to be doing a good job. That doesn’t mean I support everything he does or has ever done. You’ve confused doing a good job with doing things you like. In any case, your claim that the right opposes using violence against its political opponents is false. The Republican Party supports using violence against its political opponents; I heard its leader say so. He’s mentioned something you people call ‘second amendment solutions’ more than once should he not be re-elected. He’s offered (he’d welch) to pay the legal fees of those supporters of his who assault those who aren’t one with Landru as well. If a tenet of conservative belief is that violence against one’s opponents is bad, your president is not doing a very good job of walking that walk. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/151 "2019-11-22T20:49:15Z")
not worth it ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/152 "2019-11-22T20:51:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m probably more concerned with the effects on the middle class. So far the effects have been to massively inflate the cost of higher education. That’s bad (and, I hope, some of the “common ground” that is the topic here). Now I agree that “free” college in the long run would just be more expensive. Its just the bill would be paid by everyone else. Then everyone would be enrolling in college and staying in as long as possible if the government would fit the bill. If they started free college tomorrow I’d say within 5 years they would have to stop it because costs would be out of control. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/153 "2019-11-22T20:55:41Z")
Has that happened in other countries that do this? Or is this another example of American Exceptionalism, where we are assumed to be exceptionally inept as a country and unable to do things that other countries do just fine and are very happy with? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/154 "2019-11-22T21:52:47Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Has that happened in other countries that do this? Or is this another example of American Exceptionalism, where we are assumed to be exceptionally inept as a country and unable to do things that other countries do just fine and are very happy with? I suppose it depends on what “this” is. What other countries offer it, who qualifies, and how much does it cost? And how does whatever they do compare with what Warren wants to do? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/155 "2019-11-23T07:36:46Z")
I think the two people mentioned in the OP are affected by a combination of misinformation and something like news fatigue (in that hearing about the kurds being attacked sounds like just generic stuff you hear every day on the news, whereas if they were on the ground with those people, they would feel differently about it). My best effort at understanding the trumpists, is still to think of it as a TV show. Trump has treated the presidency as WWE; with people who need to be booed and cheered and a focus on ratings and catchphrases. It’s just about his character “winning”. Trumpists are hooked on this show, and boring old “news” and “facts” don’t get a look in. It’s a fun show, and fighting back against the president’s opponents is part of the fun for them. Sadly, presidency-as-TV-show is an effective strategy now, considering how people consume clickbait news in their bubble, as well as the ease of spreading misinformation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/156 "2019-11-23T09:53:07Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think the two people mentioned in the OP are affected by a combination of misinformation and something like news fatigue (in that hearing about the kurds being attacked sounds like just generic stuff you hear every day on the news, whereas if they were on the ground with those people, they would feel differently about it). Well, look, as one of the two people mentioned in the OP, I happen to be right here; feel free to ask away, and see for yourself whether I’m doing just fine when it comes to having information and lacking fatigue. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/157 "2019-11-23T14:20:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, look, as one of the two people mentioned in the OP, I happen to be right here; feel free to ask away, and see for yourself whether I’m doing just fine when it comes to having information and lacking fatigue. You don’t strike me as a low information voter. So I disagree with **Mijin** ’s characterization. I still think that your impression of Democrats actually advocating for an open border policy is an inaccurate conclusion, despite the debate visuals. But I have to admit, I never thought Republicans would be in favor of child separation and detention centers. So perhaps you’re not entirely wrong in your caution. However, I still think it very unlikely given how the Obama administration managed immigration policy, and given how that is viewed as a benchmark, I think it far more likely that the next Democratic administration is likely to follow that roadmap. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/158 "2019-11-23T21:48:10Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Has that happened in other countries that do this? Or is this another example of American Exceptionalism, where we are assumed to be exceptionally inept as a country and unable to do things that other countries do just fine and are very happy with? Are we talking free college or universal healthcare? I’m not sure since other countries started those decades ago when the costs were not as high and the current system wasnt such a part of society. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/159 "2019-11-24T23:30:28Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, look, as one of the two people mentioned in the OP, I happen to be right here; feel free to ask away, and see for yourself whether I’m doing just fine when it comes to having information and lacking fatigue. Sure OK. Well, in the OP you seem to be asserting that democrats are advocating open borders. This is simply false. So either I have misunderstood something (which is possible, I am not going to read a whole other thread to try to find the context for the statement), or you are a good example of what I was talking about – that it is not necessarily about there being no common ground on issues but of different people operating from different premises, some of those premises may be based on misconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639/160 "2019-11-24T23:36:58Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > > Well, look, as one of the two people mentioned in the OP, I happen to be right here; feel free to ask away, and see for yourself whether I’m doing just fine when it comes to having information and lacking fatigue. > > Sure OK. > Well, in the OP you seem to be asserting that democrats are advocating open borders. > This is simply false. > > So either I have misunderstood something (which is possible, I am not going to read a whole other thread to try to find the context for the statement), or you are a good example of what I was talking about – that it is not necessarily about there being no common ground on issues but of different people operating from different premises, some of those premises may be based on misconceptions. Huh. I say “ask away,” and you reply “Sure OK”, and — ask no questions, but admit you’ve possibly misunderstood something. To which _I’ll_ reply: “Sure OK.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-common-ground-left-to-stand-on/843639.md?page=9)