# No costume for you, you are the wrong color, you little racist! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589 "2016-09-22T17:43:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/1 "2016-09-22T17:43:37Z")
So Disney is releasing a film called [Moana](http://movies.disney.com/moana), about a ‘young princess of the tribe, Moana from Motunui Island, is a born navigator who sets sail in search of a fabled island of mysterious secrets. During her journey, she teams up with her hero and legendary demigod Maui.’. From [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moana_(2016_film)). Anyway, Disney put out a costume 'cause that is what Disney does. Apparently some Polynesians/Pacific Islanders are [unhappy](http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/22/media/disney-moana-costume-racist-polynesian/index.html)about the costume (which I can sorta understand but not due to racism). So Disney pulled it. However one quote in the article seems a bit odd to me. Chelsie Haunani Fairchild\* who appears to be one of the more vocal people on this issue is quoted as saying: > [@](#): > > It was wrong to sell a costume that allowed children to pretend to be another race This, to me, seems to absolutely the wrong position to take. My thinking is that having kids pretend to be someone of a different race is actually a good thing, that in the long run it would promote the kinds of things we want. Am I missing something? Slee \*I googled on the story and her name came up in most of the articles. Forgot to add, I know the headline is over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/2 "2016-09-22T18:30:23Z")
It’s fine, as long as they don’t put on tanface. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/3 "2016-09-22T18:35:19Z")
I’m as liberal progressive as they come, and I must confess I have not yet internalized the concepts of “cultural appropriation” that are currently being discussed widely - this being an example. My understanding is that - especially if one is a member of the dominant white culture - one is not in good graces if one says/does/styles oneself in a way that can be traced to a less dominant culture? I get that blackface / yellowface is strictly forbidden, but there is a long specific history of white entertainers engaging in those practices - so based on that history - I get that. I also get that some practices, places, iconography, etc., have special symbolic meaning and should be respected. But I’m frankly perplexed by the rules for appreciating, celebrating, adopting something useful or interesting, from a different culture. In the marketplace of ideas, good ideas are supposed to be spread and adopted by others, no? (OK, a kids costume from a Disney movie may not rise to the level of a “good idea”, but I think my general point is made). If a particular clothing style is born in a culture outside of my own am I restricted from adopting it? Music? Food? Word, phrase, or gesture? And, is this a two-way street? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/4 "2016-09-22T18:38:19Z")
IMHO, if the idea of liberalism is for society to be an inclusive melting pot and for everyone to be closer together, then this whole kerfuffle over “cultural appropriation” does exactly the opposite and backfires: It promotes segregation and a “This is mine, that is yours” attitude. It promotes separation of races and cultures. And isn’t cultural appropriation impossible to avoid? When Asian people eat pizza, are they appropriating Italian culture? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/5 "2016-09-22T18:46:45Z")
> [@](#): > > It was wrong to sell a costume that allowed children to pretend to be another race Oh, totally! All costumes should be restricted so that only children who are the same race as the character they portray can wear them. And don’t even get me started on costumes that allow children to pretend to be another _species_! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/6 "2016-09-22T18:54:59Z")
Superman costumes are right out, unless you can show you’re at least one-fourth Kryptonian. In they old days, they’d call you a Kuadroon. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/7 "2016-09-22T18:58:49Z")
From what I can tell, Chelsie Haunani Fairchild is a very stupid person. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/8 "2016-09-22T19:00:17Z")
I agree on the blackface type topic, but “cultural appropriation”? That’s like saying one doesn’t like migrants. Humans have migrated everywhere and appropriated each other’s culture since the very beginning. Isn’t that what trading is? How do different foods spread from one culture to another? What about hairstyles? Whites adopted cornrows after the movie “10” and African Americans have straightened their hair for years. Back on topic, while I can’t say much about the particular Disney costume, it seems silly to me to restrict children’s costumes to only racially appropriate characters. Recently, I saw a small African American child riding a Spiderman bicycle. He had a Spiderman backpack. Spiderman is canonically white. By the outrage’s reasoning, that kid should only have a Shaft bicycle. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/9 "2016-09-22T19:40:03Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Back on topic, while I can’t say much about the particular Disney costume, it seems silly to me to restrict children’s costumes to only racially appropriate characters. Recently, I saw a small African American child riding a Spiderman bicycle. He had a Spiderman backpack. Spiderman is canonically white. By the outrage’s reasoning, that kid should only have a Shaft bicycle. You seem to have missed the part of the discussion about who is dominant vs. who is not. The subordinate culture is permitted to adopt from the dominant culture, but not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/10 "2016-09-22T20:02:01Z")
Whether or not that costume is the equivalent of blackface, it essentially appropriates [Polynesian tattoos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81_moko), which are considered sacred. Their misappropriation for commercial purposes has _already_ caused controversies and complaints. So, having _Disney_ do the same thing was sure to provoke an outcry. And it’s just stupid; it’s not like anyone expects other Disney costumes should hide the fact that the little girl wearing a Tiana or Snow White dress is the wrong skintone. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/11 "2016-09-22T20:03:22Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > By the outrage’s reasoning, that kid should only have a Shaft bicycle. Shut yo’ mouth! One time three neighborhood kids were playing together in our yard. All three were wearing Spiderman costumes. It was not Halloween. One was a girl. I don’t know who was appropriating what, but it was cute. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/12 "2016-09-22T20:19:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And don’t even get me started on costumes that allow children to pretend to be another _species_! Pretty fuzzy logic, there. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/13 "2016-09-22T20:29:50Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > You seem to have missed the part of the discussion about who is dominant vs. who is not. The subordinate culture is permitted to adopt from the dominant culture, but not the other way around. I guess I live in a different world than some others. In my world, no one culture is dominant, or superior to another. My wife got me to watch the first season of “Outlander,” and it saddened me, but didn’t surprise me, to hear the English describe the Scots as “savages”. Of course, the American government called Native Americans “savages” for centuries, and all manner of cultures have derided others in the same way. I hope, in my next life, that I’m an advanced alien in some distant galaxy, and not a human on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/14 "2016-09-22T20:53:03Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Back on topic, while I can’t say much about the particular Disney costume, it seems silly to me to restrict children’s costumes to only racially appropriate characters. Recently, I saw a small African American child riding a Spiderman bicycle. He had a Spiderman backpack. Spiderman is canonically white. By the outrage’s reasoning, that kid should only have a Shaft bicycle. Isn’t Spiderman canonically, mostly, red? Meaning that’s the color of the costume he wears that obscures him from head to toe. Also, Spiderman has been portrayed as the alter ego of a “[teenager of Black Hispanic descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(Miles_Morales)).” ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/15 "2016-09-22T20:56:12Z")
What about punks wearing mohawks? Which is the dominant culture there? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/16 "2016-09-22T23:32:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Isn’t Spiderman canonically, mostly, red? Meaning that’s the color of the costume he wears that obscures him from head to toe. Also, Spiderman has been portrayed as the alter ego of a “[teenager of Black Hispanic descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(Miles_Morales)).” If you want to get into technicalities, then sure, Spiderman is any race you want, since he’s masked. But didn’t Peter Parker originally become Spiderman? He was always portrayed as a white teenager. I don’t care at all whether he _should_ be white or not. My daughter’s in love with this new diversity casting of minorities being iconic characters (the female Thor, and others mentioned before). Me? It doesn’t bother me either way. Portray Spiderman as a gay Asian-African with a predilection for hash brownies, and I don’t care. If we can’t cross cultures, then no one other than blacks can listen to jazz, or rock ‘n’ roll (or anything derived from it—though I do agree that not paying a fair price for it is wrong, and I mean specifically how the early fathers of Rock 'n’l Roll were treated by the record companies – not that their music shouldn’t have been shared by whites, but that the artists were cheated), only ethnic Asians can eat at Chinese restaurants, if one isn’t Japanese, then don’t bother going to a hibachi grill, and so on. I’m trying to portray the idea of “cultural appropriation” as something silly, because it is. It reminds me of the counter argument to the 80s slogan “Be American! Buy American!” That meant I couldn’t own a German Shepherd, or a Chinese Elm tree, or eat Swiss chocolate, or…the mindset is just silly. We’ve always been a global economy, it’s just that now, it’s much easier to get X from there to here. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/17 "2016-09-22T23:39:00Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Recently, I saw a small African American child riding a Spiderman bicycle. He had a Spiderman backpack. Spiderman is canonically white. By the outrage’s reasoning, that kid should only have a Shaft bicycle. [Miles Morales, who is also Spider-Man, is black Hispanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(Miles_Morales)). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/18 "2016-09-22T23:39:57Z")
Peter Parker is a white kid, but Miles Morales is not. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/19 "2016-09-22T23:47:41Z")
Uh, yeah, but why couldn’t the little black kid be portraying Miles Morales? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/20 "2016-09-22T23:57:28Z")
I’ll also agree that the whole idea of cultural appropriation being bad is silly. I think history has shown that it’s actually a good thing, and it’s good way for minority groups to stop being seen as “other.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589.md?page=2)