# No costume for you, you are the wrong color, you little racist! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589 "2016-09-22T17:43:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/181 "2016-09-24T10:14:06Z")
Why do people keep using the term “cultural appropriation” for things that are not? Appropriation refers to stealing. You cannot appropriate what is freely given. And you cannot appropriate between equals. Italians freely shared their food, and Italy was not conquered. So pizza was not appropriated. Sure, if you use it for all these completely innocuous things, it sounds silly. But those aren’t cultural appropriation. When some stupid college students argued that yoga was cultural appropriation, I pointed out how they were wrong. The people who brought it to the West were themselves freely taught, and then taught to others. If something is appropriated, there will inherently be a majority of the minority in question who is upset with you for doing so. It will be a sacred item, but only because sacred in that context means “not supposed to be trivially used.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/182 "2016-09-24T10:37:08Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We’ve had two parodical examples of this in this thread. But at least some of us think the feathered head-dress is a serious example: it may actually hurt…but it shouldn’t. It isn’t intended to hurt, and, in fact, can be intended to honor the plains Indians, not to denigrate them. You. Do. Not. Get. To. Decide. This. You are not some superior person who gets to tell the other culture “you are wrong to regard this as sacred.” Your culture is not superior to theirs–which would be the only way you’d have the right to tell them to change their culture. There is the one exception we make if what they are doing is harmful to others. But having a sacred item that you have to earn is not harmful. Every fucking culture has it to some extent. The fact that you didn’t intend to offend matters only until you are told they are offensive. If you do something that offends someone, you inherently are not honoring them. To honor someone means to do something they would receive as an honor. There is no reason this system breaks down just because it’s a group and not an individual. Groups are just a bunch of individuals. The headdress is sacred in their culture. You don’t have the right to tell them to change it. No more than you have the right to tell black people that “nigger” isn’t offensive. It’s all the same thing. Group tells you that it’s offensive, and you don’t get to tell them to “get over it.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/183 "2016-09-24T10:48:04Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The other day, I was showing someone old pictures including one where I appear dressed in Napoleonic hussard officer costume. Did I fight in the “grande armée”? No. Did I earn the officer stripes? No. Did I give a shit about not having deserved to wear this uniform? Not the slighest bit. > > […] > > Why did I do that? For my and others’ mere amusement at a time when I was organizing live action role-playing games. Do I feel bad for having done something for fun that would offend some people sensibilities? Not the slighest bit. And though it didn’t happen, I would similarly have had zero issue with posing as a plain Indian shaman or Maori warrior, with or without war bonnet and/or fake tatoos. Why would I think of people complaining? That they’re under no obligation to attend if they don’t like it. And on top of it, rather than feeling bad, I would have thought less of them for their complaints. Yes, you don’t care. This says absolutely nothing about whether what you are doing is right or wrong. I know several people who don’t care about shouting the word “nigger,” but they are still wrong. Why in the world would whether you feel guilty determine whether something is right or wrong? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/184 "2016-09-24T11:23:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > People’s reactions are whatever those people decide. I can easily picture one member of a particular ethnic group describing an act of emulation as not only appropriation, but cultural genocide or whatever additional apocalyptic verbiage they wish, while another member of the same group shrugs and says it’s no big deal. Is that another strawman image in your view? Whether strawman or not, it has no relevance, since it is based on your imagination and not anything real. It also has no relevance because whether something is cultural appropriation isn’t based on what any one person says. I can easily find you a black person who says “nigger” is okay. But that doesn’t mean that you can go around saying “nigger.” What matters is the majority. It’s cultural. It’s bigger than any one person. * * * And because I’m afraid people will get mad if I keep making new posts: > [@clairobscur](#): > > HI definitely don’t feel obligated to be respectful wrt everything that someone sincerely thinks is worthy of respect. And I’m 100% certain that you don’t, either. I’m 100% certain that you despise some beliefs and opinions that many people hold dear. You just pick and choose which disrepectful statements and actions make someone an asshole (a very small number of them) and which disrespectful statements and actions are acceptable. You are constantly saying things that no one has said. And you are “sure” that other people are a certain way. So let me set this straight. There is no picking and choosing. There are moral principles. One of those is that you don’t unnecessarily offend people. Yes, if some belief is so morally reprehensible that I need to argue against it, that might override this principle. There are sometimes more important concerns. I despise a lot of Muslim beliefs. Doesn’t mean I would ever intentionally offend Muslims. I’m absolutely not going to draw a picture of Mohammad. I have no reason to do so except just to piss them off. It’s not as if drawing him will make them treat women equally. Not that any of this covers the stuff you’ve brought up. The costumes you’ve worn were not worn because you despise them. Your own admission is that you were just having fun. The only thing you seem to despise are people who get offended due to having a different culture than yours. And, BTW, there’s some stuff I could say about French culture in this regard that I am avoiding saying because I know it would be offensive. Even though it’s about something I despise. In short, you are completely wrong. I’m nearly certain that **NAF** is about the same as me in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/185 "2016-09-24T11:29:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes, you don’t care. This says absolutely nothing about whether what you are doing is right or wrong. I know several people who don’t care about shouting the word “nigger,” but they are still wrong. > > Why in the world would whether you feel guilty determine whether something is right or wrong? Why in the world would whether someone feels offended determine whether something is right or wrong? I know several people who are offended that it’s permitted to speak disrespectfully of their religious figure, but they are still wrong. Yes, they are offended. This says absolutely nothing about whether what they want me to refrain from doing is right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/186 "2016-09-24T12:51:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > IMHO, if the idea of liberalism is for society to be an inclusive melting pot and for everyone to be closer together, then this whole kerfuffle over “cultural appropriation” does exactly the opposite and backfires: It promotes segregation and a “This is mine, that is yours” attitude. It promotes separation of races and cultures. You’re talking about [the salad bowl framework.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_bowl_(cultural_idea)) I’m not sure the ideological lines are as clear as for other issues, but from what I’ve seen the melting bowl concept is now fairly conservative. They say sure, come over with some tasty food and maybe a couple loan words, but you better learn the language and assimilate. They see a unified dominant culture as a means for stability. This is how conservatives talk about hispanic immigrants or the refugee crisis in Europe. Not all liberals disagree with that, or only to a certain extent, but they seem much more likely to embrace the salad bowl, where tolerance and self identity is key and no culture is better than another. > [@clairobscur](#): > > If you read what people fighting cultural appropriation write, producing western art when you aren’t European would qualify (in the same way an European isn’t entitled to produce Aboriginal art). For instance a Japanese composing music according to classical western tradition or playing the piano is guilty of cultural appropriation. Modern progressives define racism as prejudice + power, so no, these and your other examples wouldn’t make an impression because they’re going the wrong direction. Which is all well and good for simple examples, which is usually what makes the news (some corporation or white kids in college somewhere being dumb), but gets complicated when it’s between two non-majority cultures. > [@Sitnam](#): > > Children don’t see race, they see the character. They need to be taught to treat others differently based on skin color by adults. Toddlers have ingroup biases [when it comes to fairness.](http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00093/full) More amusingly, a couple years ago there were investigations into baby’s preferences for looking at the faces of their parents’ race and every click bait media ran some variation of “Science proves babies are racist!” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/187 "2016-09-24T13:54:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Nice. Can you tell me _why_ it is offensive, exactly? Same with the “Numid” characters of Asterix being all depicted with big lips. You gave many links to pictures, apparently assuming that it would be self-evident. It isn’t. If you don’t assume a cultural baggage, how exactly is this caricature racist or implying anything negative about Black people? Are you shitting me? It’s inherently offensive because it highlights\* and exaggerates\* precisely those features that mark Blacks as “Other”, past any semblance of just “being cartoonish” > [@](#): > > Is it equally racist when all Greek characters are depicted with a straight nose (“Greek profile”)? Racist, doubtless. Equally, no, not really. Especially since it’s that “Greek” straight nose is used for non-Greek characters too - Caesar, for one. > [@](#): > > By the way, I had to search for the word “gollywog”, and that you used this word, clearly show that you’re assuming pre-existing cultural baggage. No - I’m using the word as a _current_ English descriptive for that look, I’m not claiming it’s the source for it in _Asterix_. Don’t blame me if you’re not first-language English. > [@](#): > > I wasn’t thinking of the drawing but of the role and personality of the character. Wouldn’t know, never read it, and irrelevant to questions of drawing style. > [@](#): > > And it’s definitely not laziness, because being accurate isn’t at all the point. Of course it’s laziness. Apathy is a kind of laziness, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/188 "2016-09-24T14:56:32Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > If you _really_ want to get into technicalities, it’s “Spider-Man,” not “Spiderman.” Because trademark. But I digress. And to _really_ be anal about technicalities, I’ll retract my comment about “canonical,” because I meant “original”. As in, when Spider-Man (R) was created by Lee and Ditko, Peter Parker was white. Times change, and so does canon. I think I’ve decided, for my definition at least, “cultural appropriation” is “taking credit for another culture’s invention” more or less. There are better ways of putting it, but as an example, if Vanilla Ice claimed to have invented rap, or Elvis had claimed to invent rock ‘n’ roll. Something along those lines. As I said before, cultural trading is in our DNA; it’s always happened, and always will. “Appropriation” is up to the person defining the term. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/189 "2016-09-24T16:04:55Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > If you _really_ want to get into technicalities, it’s “Spider-Man,” not “Spiderman.” Because trademark. But I digress. No, not “because trademark.” Because that’s how they choose to spell it. The difference isn’t significant enough to affect trademark rights. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/190 "2016-09-24T16:11:41Z")
This whole concept of cultural appropriation is nonsensical. Ideas and practices do not have to be freely giving or between equals or whatever other arbitrary constraint. If someone wants to eat, wear, use an artifact, or speak they don’t need some random person’s from some random tribe permission. I can imagine during war stealing the idea for a catapult and the catapult originator’s group crying foul over appropriation. Oh no! Plate armor is our sacred garb you can’t wear it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/191 "2016-09-24T17:44:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you shitting me? It’s inherently offensive because it highlights\* and exaggerates\* precisely those features that mark Blacks as “Other”, past any semblance of just “being cartoonish” Are _you_ shitting me? What makes something cartoonish _if not_ exaggerated features? And I checked again all the links you gave : the only common feature is the big red lips. Which has been used as cartoonish shortcut for blacks forever, and yes including in your dolls, and in blackfaces. But you’ve still failed to tell me why using big lips as a stereotypical shortcut for Black is inherently racist. It tells exactly nothing, positive or negative, about Black people. It’s definitely not the feature that mark Black as “other”, because the only actual feature that mark them as other is the color of their skin (and to some extent the hair). And even if it were, it would still not be racist, because exaggerating distinguishing features is exactly what is done in cartoons. In this case, it’s not even realistic, it’s just traditional, like mostly all stereotypes. And this exagerated feature tells absolutely nothing about Blacks. Zilch. Nada. It doesn’t say they’re inferior, superior, good, bad, violent, peaceful, intelligent, unintelligent, criminals, law-abiding…it conveys no message, racist or not. Unless you bring your own message at the table. A depiction that says nothing about Black people can’t be _inherently_ racist. You need to see unstated asumptions in it for it to be racist. You need to equate “big lips” with “negative discourse about Black people”. You definitely need to bring your own cultural baggage, where depiction of big lips has been typically closely associated with a racist discourse. That’s not _inherent_. That’s _cultural_. > [@](#): > > I’m using the word as a _current_ English descriptive for that look, I’m not claiming it’s the source for it in _Asterix_. Don’t blame me if you’re not first-language English. That’s not the problem. The problem is that like with blackfaces, you bring an example which is culturally charged for you. You’re saying it looks like a gollywog and like a blackface, so of course it’s racist. While once again, gollywog puppets and blackfaces aren’t inherently racist, either. You’re not demonstrating that anything is inherently racist, you’re just pointing at similar depictions, which for cultural reasons are associated with racism. Tell me once again what inherently racist message a blacface, the doll, or Asterix caricatures convey, outside of a cultural context. The real reason why you find Asterix characters racist is because you associate them with gollywogs/blackfaces, which in turn are associated with racist depictions or discourses, and those associations are _cultural_. But then you ignore that fact, and because these associations are deeply ingrained in your mind, because it feels obvious to you _because of your culture_ that those depictions are racists, you state vehemently that they should appear as obviously and inherently racist to everybody else. You’re the one here who wants to project your cultural idiosyncrasies on everybody else and basically want every other culture and individual to adopt your arbitrary bias. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/192 "2016-09-24T20:26:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > . . . Same with the “Numid” characters of Asterix being all depicted with big lips. . . . The current Ghostbuster comic books depict Winston Zeddemore with very large lips. (They also depict Egon Spengler with an extreme long face, three times as high as it is wide.) The Tank McNamara comic strip caricatures people of all races, and some of these depictions involve racial characteristics such as lips, noses, and ears. It would be absurd to demand that caricature of individuals always specifically avoids exaggeration of “racial” features. Now, all of this should be done with some degree of sensitivity. The Winston Zeddemore caricature is defended by the comics’ extremely favorable treatment of him as a character: he’s a hero, through and through. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/193 "2016-09-24T20:33:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You. Do. Not. Get. To. Decide. This. I certainly do. > [@](#): > > You are not some superior person who gets to tell the other culture “you are wrong to regard this as sacred.” Your culture is not superior to theirs–which would be the only way you’d have the right to tell them to change their culture. I never told them to change their culture. I never told them they were wrong to consider the symbol sacred. I said that I get to use the symbol anyway, sacred or not. That’s called freedom. A hell of a lot of people think the American Flag is sacred. But we can still buy underwear with stars and stripes on it. Their idea of sacredness doesn’t stand in the way of my using it in commerce…and neither does yours. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/194 "2016-09-24T20:51:43Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Are _you_ shitting me? I asked first… > [@](#): > > What makes something cartoonish _if not_ exaggerated features? I’m not saying it’s not cartoonish, i’m saying it’s cartoonish _and_ offensive. The difference lying in _what_ gets exaggerated and how. > [@](#): > > And I checked again all the links you gave : the only common feature is the big red lips. Yeah, 'cos black are really all that dark… and that chinless face shape, with the pinhead, that’s also so naturalistic. > [@](#): > > Which has been used as cartoonish shortcut for blacks forever, and yes including in your dolls, and in blackfaces. Yes, and it’s _always_ been offensive and racist. > [@](#): > > But you’ve still failed to tell me why using big lips as a stereotypical shortcut for Black is inherently racist. It tells exactly nothing, positive or negative, about Black people. It’s definitely not the feature that mark Black as “other” It’s not the _only_ one, but then, that’s _your_ Wurzel Gummidge, not mine. > [@](#): > > , because the only actual feature that mark them as other is the color of their skin (and to some extent the hair). Bullshit. It’s _all_ the features - the skin, always made darker than the norm, the hair, the lips, always completely unlike any real African’s lips, the nose, the eyes made to show more whites…the whole racist package. > [@](#): > > And even if it were, it would still not be racist, because exaggerating distinguishing features is exactly what is done in cartoons. “It’s a cartoon” does not preclude something also being [racist](http://sosa2.uni-graz.at/sosa/images/druckschriften/jugendliteratur/sammlung/giftpilz01.jpg). > [@](#): > > In this case, it’s not even realistic, it’s just traditional, like mostly all stereotypes. What is racism, if not a kind of stereotyping? And racism is a _longstanding_ tradition in Europe, too… > [@](#): > > And this exagerated feature tells absolutely nothing about Blacks. Well, yes, but it tells us plenty about the artists. > [@](#): > > Zilch. Nada. It doesn’t say they’re inferior, superior, good, bad, violent, peaceful, intelligent, unintelligent, criminals, law-abiding…it conveys no message, racist or not. If you think the standard Black caricature isn’t trying to convey a message that Blacks have certain innate characteristics, you’re delightfully naive or just semiotically blind. The visual clues used for the standard Black caricature are the same ones used for laziness & low intelligence in other cartoon characters. The difference is that all Blacks are drawn that way, but with the Romans, it’s only a few feckless characters. > [@](#): > > Unless you bring your own message at the table. A depiction that says nothing about Black people can’t be _inherently_ racist. _No_ work of art says “nothing”. > [@](#): > > You need to see unstated asumptions in it for it to be racist. No, I just need to note what the artist has actually done, and how it compares to the rest of his work. > [@](#): > > You need to equate “big lips” with “negative discourse about Black people”. Comically exaggerating an inherent feature _is_ negative discourse. This particular bit happens to be what I highlighted here, I could easily have picked different ones in BD. The depiction of Native Americans in _Asterix_ isn’t any better, for instance… > [@](#): > > You definitely need to bring your own cultural baggage, where depiction of big lips has been typically closely associated with a racist discourse. That’s not _inherent_. That’s _cultural_. No, even absent cultural background I can see when someone is being depicted as less than human. I don’t need any cultural baggage to tell [this](http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/oc%20bugs%20poor%20japanese.jpg) isn’t a flattering portrayal…or [this](http://www.dreuz.info/wp-content/uploads/jew-grab-money-kinky-hair-hooknose-grin.gif)… but go ahead, tell me it’s just my “cultural baggage” that sees those as inherently racist too. Like I said, semiotically blind. > [@](#): > > gollywog puppets and blackfaces aren’t inherently racist, either. Like fuck, they’re not. > [@](#): > > Tell me once again what inherently racist message a blacface, the doll, or Asterix caricatures convey, outside of a cultural context. Blacks are “Other” and not, in some ways, fully deserving of consideration as human beings. > [@](#): > > The real reason why you find Asterix characters racist is because you associate them with gollywogs/blackfaces, which in turn are associated with racist depictions or discourses, and those associations are _cultural_. No, the depictions are racist in-and-of-themselves. > [@](#): > > You’re the one here who wants to project your cultural idiosyncrasies on everybody else and basically want every other culture and individual to adopt your arbitrary bias. You say “arbitrary bias”, I say “semiotically aware”. But go ahead, tell me there’s no othering involved in consistent caricatured depictions of an entire race of people. I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/195 "2016-09-25T00:03:32Z")
I think 9/11 is a better analogy than Purple Hearts-- most of us have an intellectual respect for the military, but a visceral emotional reaction to 9/11. I’ve travelled to various parts of the world where September 11th themes are sometimes used as decorative elements on random items. I recall seeing cheap jute tote bags depicting a cartoon plane crashing into the twin towers, and another place where a commonly sold cheap watch featured an Osama Bin Laden face and Beverly Hills 90210/World Cup wrist bands. None of these places have any real direct connection with 9/11 or the ideologies involved, and these images weren’t used to make any coherent statement. It was just a random decoration for cheap goods. As an American, it is uncomfortable. Both because of the emotions we feel about 9/11, and because there is an element of menace toward seeing something like that used in a context we don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/196 "2016-09-25T00:09:41Z")
I think it’s fair that most people who adopt war bonnets aren’t doing so out of malice, but ignorance. I’m going to be generous and assume they don’t realize the significance and think it’s just a typical headdress. Kind of like snotty little goth kids who think it’s cool to wear rosary beads as a necklace. > [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > I think we need a new specific word, which has the definition of > > “trying to fight racism with racism, and or accusing innocent people of racism, out of a confused sense of duty to oppose racism.” > > Or something like that. “Fight racism with racism” – I like that. Mind if I “appropriate” it? 😉 And yes, there are some fringe elements who will say food and just basic fashion trends can be appropriation – don’t visit Everyday Feminism unless you want your head to explode. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/197 "2016-09-25T00:16:51Z")
This will probably trigger some but even some of the left recognizes the insanity of modern liberalism’s attempt at thought control. [Opinion | Will the Left Survive the Millennials? - The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/opinion/will-the-left-survive-the-millennials.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/198 "2016-09-25T01:49:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think it’s fair that most people who adopt war bonnets aren’t doing so out of malice, but ignorance. I’m going to be generous and assume they don’t realize the significance and think it’s just a typical headdress. Kind of like snotty little goth kids who think it’s cool to wear rosary beads as a necklace. . . . While this may be true, I don’t know if it’s really relevant to the debate here. I do know the significance…and I do not give a shit. No one has the power to compel me to observe their religion. (“Hey, the Muezzin just called for prayers, and you’re not kneeling. How dare you commit such a blatant offense against my faith!”) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/199 "2016-09-25T03:11:10Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > While this may be true, I don’t know if it’s really relevant to the debate here. I do know the significance…and I do not give a shit. No one has the power to compel me to observe their religion. > > (“Hey, the Muezzin just called for prayers, and you’re not kneeling. How dare you commit such a blatant offense against my faith!”) Some people _do_ assume cultural appropriation every time someone wears/eats/listens to/displays art/whatever from another culture. There are always going to be people who take offensive at stupid shit. Most of them post on tumblr. And that’s your choice, you don’t have to. But, likewise, people will get pissed about it, and you gotta accept that too. I mostly roll my eyes and go about my business. (Like I said about the rosary beads. I find it annoying, but it’s not something that really concerns me all that much) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/200 "2016-09-25T03:32:16Z")
I do very readily confess that if I were running a business, large or small, I’d work very hard not to give offense. Because, just as I may have the abstract legal right to use such symbols…other people have the very concrete legal right to boycott my business right into bankruptcy! This is the way in which free speech is self-regulating. Very few of us want picketers marching up and down the sidewalk in front of our shops! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589.md?page=11)