# No costume for you, you are the wrong color, you little racist! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589 "2016-09-22T17:43:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/41 "2016-09-23T03:08:15Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > The subordinate culture is permitted to adopt from the dominant culture, but not the other way around. I can’t tell if you mean this in a descriptive or prescriptive way- whether you’re saying this is the way it is, or this is the way it \*should \*be. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/42 "2016-09-23T03:11:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So, again - what if a white person opines that black people shouldn’t play curling, bridge, lacrosse, chess or golf because those are “white people’s games?” …do you want to play Kilikiti? Go for it! It fun for all the family. Do you want to wear a Feathered war bonnet? From wikipedia: a Feathered war bonnet is “worn by males of the American Plains Indians who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe.” They are a very specific thing used for a very specific purpose. In a free society you are welcome to wear a feathered war bonnet if you choose too. But if you are not a “male of the American Plains Indians who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe” then you are culturally appropriating the bonnet. Chess is a “two-player strategy board game played on a chessboard”. Curling is “a sport in which players slide stones on a sheet of ice towards a target area which is segmented into four concentric circles.” Golf is “a club and ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit balls into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible.” None of these sports are tied to anything “culture wise” and playing them is not appropriating anything from any culture. A “white person” can opine that black people shouldn’t play “white peoples sports”. That doesn’t make their opinion any more valid than anyone else’s though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/43 "2016-09-23T03:19:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > **If it’s not your culture being appropriated, you don’t have the right to say it’s okay.** Sure, I do. > [@](#): > > It’s their culture, and they decide what to share and what not to share. No, they don’t. > [@](#): > > You deciding for them is you saying that your culture is superior and gets to control the other culture. Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/44 "2016-09-23T03:24:30Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …do you want to play Kilikiti? Go for it! It fun for all the family. > > Do you want to wear a Feathered war bonnet? From wikipedia: a Feathered war bonnet is “worn by males of the American Plains Indians who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe.” They are a very specific thing used for a very specific purpose. > > In a free society you are welcome to wear a feathered war bonnet if you choose too. But if you are not a “male of the American Plains Indians who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe” then you are culturally appropriating the bonnet. Chess is a “two-player strategy board game played on a chessboard”. Curling is “a sport in which players slide stones on a sheet of ice towards a target area which is segmented into four concentric circles.” Golf is “a club and ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit balls into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible.” None of these sports are tied to anything “culture wise” and playing them is not appropriating anything from any culture. > > A “white person” can opine that black people shouldn’t play “white peoples sports”. That doesn’t make their opinion any more valid than anyone else’s though. Are people in Asia who adopt English and Western attire appropriating culture? If so, so what? People can choose to dress and speak as they wish. People can choose to produce music as they wish. It’s downright bizarre and dangerous to tie accepted behavior to a genotype. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/45 "2016-09-23T03:38:02Z")
So, for the record, are wearing Spock ears or a Captain Kirk mask racist, if you’re not a Jew, or is it just the Worf mask if the wearer isn’t black? Or a Gowron mask if the wearer isn’t white? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/46 "2016-09-23T03:46:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Bullshit. …well it is really. Lets take the headdress example I’ve just talked about. Feathered war bonnets are “worn by males of the American Plains Indians who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe.” Lets say you know this. You know how important the feathered war bonnet are to the American Plains Indians. But you want to have a fashion shoot. And you think that a feathered war bonnet would look just fabulous on a 16 year-old female model. So you organize it and do the shoot. You’ve just said “fuck you” to the American Plains Indians. You’ve given them the middle finger. And the culture that we live in allows you to raise the middle finger to the American Plains Indians. And they can’t do anything about it at all because the society that we live in doesn’t give them the power to do anything about it. Both the US and Canada are relatively free and open societies: and the freedom to wear a feathered war bonnet for any reason at all is a value that is imposed on the American Plains Indians. They can’t out law it. They can’t restrict it. They can and they do protest it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/47 "2016-09-23T03:47:24Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > So, for the record, are wearing Spock ears or a Captain Kirk mask racist, if you’re not a Jew Here’s one - can you dress up [these versions](http://www.theviewscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/patternsofforce1-300x220.jpg) of Spock and Kirk? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/48 "2016-09-23T03:51:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Are people in Asia who adopt English and Western attire appropriating culture? …in many cases yes. > [@](#): > > Cultural appropriation is the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of another culture. > **[Cultural appropriation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation)** > > Cultural appropriation is the adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity in a manner perceived as inappropriate or unacknowledged. This can be especially controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from minority cultures. When cultural elements are copied from a minority culture by members of a dominant culture, and these elements are used outside of their original cultural context – sometimes Cultural appropriation ... Cultural appropriation isn’t a “bad thing” in itself. Its just a thing. > [@](#): > > If so, so what? People can choose to dress and speak as they wish. People can choose to produce music as they wish. It’s downright bizarre and dangerous to tie accepted behavior to a genotype. As I haven’t suggested that people shouldn’t be able to dress or speak as they wish, or that people shouldn’t be able to produce music as they wish, its downright bizarre you’ve chosen my quote as a springboard for your rant. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/49 "2016-09-23T03:53:03Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > So, for the record, are wearing Spock ears or a Captain Kirk mask racist, if you’re not a Jew, or is it just the Worf mask if the wearer isn’t black? Or a Gowron mask if the wearer isn’t white? …why don’t we take it in baby steps. First things first. Blackface: racist or not? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/50 "2016-09-23T03:54:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …well it is really. Lets take the headdress example I’ve just talked about. Feathered war bonnets are “worn by males of the American Plains Indians who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe.” > > Lets say you know this. You know how important the feathered war bonnet are to the American Plains Indians. But you want to have a fashion shoot. And you think that a feathered war bonnet would look just fabulous on a 16 year-old female model. So you organize it and do the shoot. > > You’ve just said “fuck you” to the American Plains Indians. You’ve given them the middle finger. And the culture that we live in allows you to raise the middle finger to the American Plains Indians. > > And they can’t do anything about it at all because the society that we live in doesn’t give them the power to do anything about it. Both the US and Canada are relatively free and open societies: and the freedom to wear a feathered war bonnet for any reason at all is a value that is imposed on the American Plains Indians. They can’t out law it. They can’t restrict it. They can and they do protest it. They can protest all they like - they have that right and I’ve no interest in taking it from them. If they want to try to organize a boycott of whatever product I’m trying to sell, or of my services as a photographer, or cause any other form of legal economic impact to me, let them. I could picture myself apologizing if I felt it was in my economic interest to do so, whether or not I felt any genuine remorse. Meantime, my use of a feathered war bonnet on a model has in no way reduced their ability to use feathered war bonnets in any manner of their choosing. They can choose to perceive this as me giving them a middle finger - it’s my choice whether I not I care. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/51 "2016-09-23T03:55:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …why don’t we take it in baby steps. First things first. > > Blackface: racist or not? Let’s assume it is for the sake of argument. So? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/52 "2016-09-23T04:04:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They can protest all they like - they have that right and I’ve no interest in taking it from them. If they want to try to organize a boycott of whatever product I’m trying to sell, or of my services as a photographer, or cause any other form of legal economic impact to me, let them. I could picture myself apologizing if I felt it was in my economic interest to do so, whether or not I felt any genuine remorse. > > Meantime, my use of a feathered war bonnet on a model has in no way reduced their ability to use feathered war bonnets in any manner of their choosing. They can choose to perceive this as me giving them a middle finger - it’s my choice whether I not I care. …but they can’t stop other people using it in a way that it is not supposed to be used. Organizing boycotts leads to threads like this where “white people” get to be all outraged and say “whats the problem? Just get over it.” They can’t stop other people using the headdress in a because “your culture” controls “their culture.” Big T’s point wasn’t bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/53 "2016-09-23T04:15:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Let’s assume it is for the sake of argument. So? …wow. Really? You are gonna use the “for the purposes of debate” card on the question of “Blackface: racist or not?” When a significant amount of people decide that “Spock ears or a Captain Kirk mask are racist” then discussing this might be somewhat relevant to this discussion. But people aren’t doing that. All that particular analogy does is demonstrate that the person who used it doesn’t understand the issues at play at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/54 "2016-09-23T04:25:06Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …but they can’t stop other people using it in a way that it is not supposed to be used. Well, not supposed to be used _in a manner arbitrarily decided by them_. They’re free to self-impose whatever restrictions they like - why is it my concern? If they want to try to invoke copyright or trademark law and say my use is an unauthorized infringement and I must cease or desist or face a lawsuit, so be it. > [@](#): > > They can’t stop other people using the headdress in a because “your culture” controls “their culture.” Big T’s point wasn’t bullshit. Do you even know what my “culture” _is?_ Anyway, this has nothing to do with who’s gotten screwed over historically - I don’t want _anyone_, including elements of my own “culture”, to be able to tell others “that symbol is sacred to us and you are not allowed to use it.” Let’s assume such symbols exist and I see someone using in a manner specifically calculated to maximize the chance of causing offense to me personally. I will certainly think less of that person, probably form a negative opinion, probably find out what they support and make sure I’m not also supporting it, probably say they’re being jerks or trolls, but I claim the right to force them to stop because if that right exists, it could eventually be used to try to stop _me_ from doing something, whether I had any intent to offend or not. Is it offensive for me, with no Chinese ancestry, to enjoy Chinese food? Should I have to care if the food I get in my local Chinese buffet restaurant is markedly different from the fare one would actually find in China itself, i.e. the food is a Western-tainted approximation of Chinese cuisine? Am I being offensive if I use a fork instead of chopsticks? Have I committed a social sin if I eat Chinese food for the meal and have a western-style desert (say, lemon meringue pie a la mode)? If a Chinese person declares my actions to be offensive to his culture and must stop, am I obliged to care? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/55 "2016-09-23T04:31:06Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …wow. Really? You are gonna use the “for the purposes of debate” card on the question of “Blackface: racist or not?” Yes, because arguing that in some circumstances blackface might not be racist is likely to be pointless, and that’s assuming we could agree on a definition of “racist” in the first place. I’m cheerfully willing to grant for the sake of argument that by any reasonable definition of “blackface” and by any reasonable definition of “racist”, blackface is racist. Now what? > [@](#): > > When a significant amount of people decide that “Spock ears or a Captain Kirk mask are racist” then discussing this might be somewhat relevant to this discussion. But people aren’t doing that. All that particular analogy does is demonstrate that the person who used it doesn’t understand the issues at play at all. Well, you’ve got a pair of Jewish actors who are dressed up like science-fiction characters who are dressed up like pseudo-Nazis (without trying to get overly nitpicky, the episode didn’t feature real Nazis in the sense of the characters having time-traveled back to 1940s Germany, but rather they were among an alien culture that had been guided into a very good approximation of Naziism.) It’s relevant to the issue on the valid basis that the issue does tend toward the ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/56 "2016-09-23T04:34:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > but I claim the right to force them to stop because if that right exists “…but I _ **can’t** _ claim the right to force them to stop…” is what I intended to say. Although if we’re going to get meta, I can actually _claim_ anything I want. I just don’t have the right to have this claim enforceable by law. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/57 "2016-09-23T04:45:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > . . . Lets say you know this. You know how important the feathered war bonnet are to the American Plains Indians. But you want to have a fashion shoot. And you think that a feathered war bonnet would look just fabulous on a 16 year-old female model. So you organize it and do the shoot. > > You’ve just said “fuck you” to the American Plains Indians. You’ve given them the middle finger. And the culture that we live in allows you to raise the middle finger to the American Plains Indians. . . . Disagree. It might be a little tacky, but nothing worse. You can’t just proclaim something “sacred” and demand others avoid it. That leads to idolatry and other absurdities. Such usage in trademarks and other places is not a “middle finger” to anyone. You can be as hurt as you want, but you don’t have the power to tell me what I mean by what I say. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/58 "2016-09-23T04:46:08Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Navajo textiles is one thing that comes to mind. A few years ago, they were all the rage. Everything was Navajo print. But you better believe when K-Mart started selling Navajo bathroom rugs, the cool kids had moved on to something else. > > What’s the real world impact? Well, I know that now when I think of Navajo prints, I immediately think “lame!” Not because I have an aversion to Navajo culture, but because K-Mart turned it into a cheap commodity. If I made my living producing authentic Navajo wares, I’d be totally pissed off. I’d likely have to do something else to pay the bills, which means there would be less incentive for me to keep perpetuating my culture. > > I think we potentially lose valuable information whenever a culture–especially a long-standing one–disappears. If American slaves had been totally disrobed of their culture (instead of damn-near disrobed), then Americans wouldn’t have the wonderful music it has. If Americans immigrants weren’t allowed to bring anything with them from the old country, we’d be a very bland, sterile country. Maybe a style of textile disappearing isn’t the worst thing in the world. But the culture producing that textile probably has other things of great value, and those things shouldn’t be equated with chinzy K-Mart wares. I am a native New Mexican and a lot of the Navajo textiles were cheap commodities long before K-Mart got involved. There are high quality items but real Native Americans have been selling cheap commodity art in the Santa Fe square, old town Albuquerque and alll sorts of other places for as long as I can remember. And you know what? They are still selling cheap ass shit and high quality Navajo art. Nothing disappeared (except the neon wolf craze, which died thank god). In fact a friend of mine who sang for a band I used to gig with is now making his living selling Native American art, paintings, rugs and sculptures which he makes. He might be very interested to learn that the art he creates is now just a ‘cheap commodity’ because you saw a knock off in K-Mart a while ago. Especially as his paintings start at 6 grand a pop. Oh, he is a Native Americsn and was born on a pueblo. Sante Fe plaza and old town Albuquerque are still filled with Native American art being sold by Native American artists. The fact that your opinion on art is formed by K-Mart does not mean that artists lose thier integrity or ability to sell their art. It does not mean that their culture has been somehow dishonored. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/59 "2016-09-23T04:47:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …why don’t we take it in baby steps. First things first. > > Blackface: racist or not? Not intrinsically, only because of context. A flaming cross is not intrinsically racist either. And nor is a Swastika. However, because of context, all of these are commonly associated with racism. It is completely possible for someone to arrange a blackface performance without intending racism in any way: he might simply be celebrating Al Jolsen. Again, you don’t have the power to tell someone else what his speech means. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589/60 "2016-09-23T04:48:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, not supposed to be used _in a manner arbitrarily decided by them_. They’re free to self-impose whatever restrictions they like - why is it my concern? If they want to try to invoke copyright or trademark law and say my use is an unauthorized infringement and I must cease or desist or face a lawsuit, so be it. …I am perfectly aware of what options are available to the American Plains Indians in current society. Why is that of your concern? I’m not claiming it is. I’m claiming that you were wrong to call Big T’s statement “bullshit.” Thats all. All rules and laws are “arbitrarily decided by someone.” I can’t go and laugh at the [Tomb of the Unknown Soldier](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdHxUXf2CE) without some guy with a gun yelling at me. > [@](#): > > Do you even know what my “culture” _is?_ No I don’t. Which is why I used “” when I used the word “culture.” > [@](#): > > Anyway, this has nothing to do with who’s gotten screwed over historically - I don’t want _anyone_, including elements of my own “culture”, to be able to tell others “that symbol is sacred to us and you are not allowed to use it.” And fortunately for you you live in a society where the American Plains Indians cannot tell you that you are “not allowed to use” their symbols and things that are sacred to them. Because “your society” controls “their society.” What they are allowed to do is ask you not to use them. You can choose whether or not to respect their request. > [@](#): > > Let’s assume such symbols exist and I see someone using in a manner specifically calculated to maximize the chance of causing offense to me personally. I will certainly think less of that person, probably form a negative opinion, probably find out what they support and make sure I’m not also supporting it, probably say they’re being jerks or trolls, but I claim the right to force them to stop because if that right exists, it could eventually be used to try to stop _me_ from doing something, whether I had any intent to offend or not. I’m not arguing for a change in laws. I’m stating that Big T had a point. > [@](#): > > Is it offensive for me, with no Chinese ancestry, to enjoy Chinese food? Should I have to care if the food I get in my local Chinese buffet restaurant is markedly different from the fare one would actually find in China itself, i.e. the food is a Western-tainted approximation of Chinese cuisine? Am I being offensive if I use a fork instead of chopsticks? Have I committed a social sin if I eat Chinese food for the meal and have a western-style desert (say, lemon meringue pie a la mode)? If a Chinese person declares my actions to be offensive to his culture and must stop, am I obliged to care? You aren’t obligated to do a god-damn thing. That is my point. You are free to do whatever the fuck you want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-costume-for-you-you-are-the-wrong-color-you-little-racist/766589.md?page=4)