# No direct flights between most populous US cities? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178 "2010-03-03T20:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/21 "2010-03-04T21:33:39Z")
Indianapolis was the headquarters of [ATA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Airlines)’s operations until they folded up in 2008. Given that Indianapolis and Oakland were two of their hubs, I would guess that they had non-stop service between the two. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help you now. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/22 "2010-03-04T21:36:57Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > by the by, one of the versions of their license plates really bothers me. It’s partly the source of my disdain for that state. Why? What does it show that bothers you? ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/23 "2010-03-04T22:12:41Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > However, I was once on a flight between Providence (#136) and Boston. In '89, I did a Manchester NH (#232) to Washington DC flight, which had a connection in Boston. It was cheaper than Boston-DC & back. ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/24 "2010-03-04T22:42:28Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > If you want a city pair that you literally can’t fly between without changing planes, try Seattle and Pittsburgh. I think Seattle is often going to be one of the pairs in the list. Tampa/Seattle is also non-existant. I think the distance combined with hubs on the way to every destination (SFO, SLC, DEN, MSP, DET) make it really easy to just route everyone through the hub. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/25 "2010-03-04T22:48:04Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Hubs and switching are far more efficient than direct flights. While it’s probably a little less convenient for _you_, it saves them money and, overall, gets you where you’re going faster. Why is it faster to fly a longer distance with a stop in the middle? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/26 "2010-03-04T22:50:37Z")
A two hour layover in Tulsa is a lot faster than waiting three days for a direct flight. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/27 "2010-03-04T23:03:39Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > A two hour layover in Tulsa is a lot faster than waiting three days for a direct flight. Well yeah, but that sort of begs the question. Of course the hub system is faster than a system with almost no direct flights, but it’s also faster than going by spaceship, since those aren’t available at all. So what? That doesn’t explain why hub systems get you there faster. It doesn’t get you there faster if you don’t have to wait, and you wouldn’t have to wait if they were available. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/28 "2010-03-05T01:28:18Z")
Despite having US Air around, Philly doesn’t have non-stops to Oakland, San Jose, San Antonio or Austin. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/29 "2010-03-05T01:41:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Why? What does it show that bothers you? Looking at the Indiana BMV website, I see three candidates: In God We Trust plate Choose Life plate Lincoln’s Boyhood Home plate The first two are controversial, and the last is just kind of sad. Perhaps an “FDR changed planes here” plate is in the works. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/30 "2010-03-05T01:44:03Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well yeah, but that sort of begs the question. Of course the hub system is faster than a system with almost no direct flights, but it’s also faster than going by spaceship, since those aren’t available at all. So what? That doesn’t explain why hub systems get you there faster. It doesn’t get you there faster if you don’t have to wait, and you wouldn’t have to wait if they were available. When you’re talking about hub service, you’re usually looking at 3 or more flights a day from each of the outlying cities. Non-stop service, if it’s available at all, usually isn’t more than one or two flights a day. So I can take the 8:00 a.m. flight to the hub, connect to the 10:30 flight to my destination and be there by noon, or I can make the midday connection and be there by 4:00, or the evening connection and be there for my meeting the next morning. Or, I can take the one non-stop that’s available and hope my client fits his schedule around my arrival time. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/31 "2010-03-05T01:55:40Z")
Gotta share this story. Flying out of Fairbanks, Alaska. Got to sit behind a cranky old codger and his wife. They certainly did the New Yorker stereotypes no favors on this flight. One thing he loudly bitched about over and over and over for hours till we got to Seattle was “why arent there any DIRECT flights from Fairbanks to New York City? I can’t understand for the life of me why they don’t have a direct flight from Fairbanks to NYC. A direct route would be soo much shorter…” Ughh. I am a pretty patient person, but by the end of the flight I wanted to smack him upside the head and say “Because, you are the ONLY two people outa hundreds going from Fairbanks to NYC. And, NYC is NOT the fracking center of the universe.” ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/32 "2010-03-05T02:08:44Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Southwest doesn’t use a traditional hub and spoke model. They are also the only airline that has been consistently profitable over a very long period. No necessary correlation between the two, by the way. Southwest only flies one type of aircraft, saves lots that way. Southwest for years successfully hedged on their fuel, saving lots. Southwest has much lower personnel costs. Southwest historically hasn’t flown to the primary airport of a metropolitan area, rather a smaller, less expensive (for them) airport nearby, say, Burbank but not LAX, or Providence, but not Boston Logan. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/33 "2010-03-05T02:09:42Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > “… And, NYC is NOT the fracking center of the universe.” But it is the Center of the World. It’s, supposedly, the center of the US Economy, World Economy, and capital of any semblance of World Governance. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/34 "2010-03-05T02:12:33Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > But it is the Center of the World. > > It’s, supposedly, the center of the US Economy, World Economy, and capital of any semblance of World Governance. That last part is particularly embarassing. I’ve leave that out next time 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/35 "2010-03-05T02:21:34Z")
The real deal is that the airlines now have nearly 40 years of very detailed knowledge of the demand for travel between thousands of city-pairs around the world. If the demand for non-stop travel between San Francisco and Indianapolis were high enough to justify a flight, someone would fulfill that demand, and make some money. Sadly, the way it works in airlines is that usually two or more try to fulfill the demand at the same time, and the all lose money in the market. ``` The federal government used to regulate airline travel, and would prevent that sort of suicidal competition. They also regulated fares. It was with the deregulation of the airlines--in the Carter administration--that the more efficient hub/spoke system arose. And in real terms, fares have dropped significantly compared to general prices over the same period, saving passengers, and businesses, literally billions. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/36 "2010-03-05T02:36:31Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Looking at the Indiana BMV website, I see three candidates: I was referring to choice #1, for those keeping score at home. ---
**Author:** ![mcott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@mcott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcott)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/37 "2010-03-05T16:27:19Z")
Try Fronteir Airlines. Leaves IND at 4:35 PM with a stop in Denver (no change of plane), arriving SFO at 7:48, all times local. Other direction is done by Southwest, also with a stop in Denver, out of SFO at 6:20AM and arriving IND at 2:55. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178/38 "2010-03-05T16:52:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > However, I was once on a flight between Providence (#136) and Boston. That’s an hour’s drive. It might have been just as fast for the plane to taxi the whole way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-flights-between-most-populous-us-cities/531178.md?page=1)