# No Dungeons and Dragons in prison **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664 "2010-01-27T18:05:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/41 "2010-01-27T23:46:57Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s been a long time since you have practiced. You have described the way it works for the rich and powerful. It has, and I never practiced civil law at all, so the whole notion of summary judgement is theoretical to me – I guess the closest criminal analog would be a motion to quash the indictment. But I do remember that long-ago Civil Pro class and the distinction between Rule 56 and 12(b)(6) motions, at least, as I say, in theory. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/42 "2010-01-27T23:47:52Z")
Obligatory Penny Arcade summation: [Gwaihir In The House](http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/1/27/) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/43 "2010-01-27T23:53:50Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Yah, it’s hard to follow - not least because DMs (good ones, anyway) really _don’t_ give “absolutely guidance and direction” to the other players. DMs don’t give orders, other than purely mechanical instruction - “okay, roll to see if cast magic missile worked …” /_Incredibly nerdy pedantic nitpick_/ Magic Missiles don’t require a ‘to hit’ role and allow no saving throw. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/44 "2010-01-27T23:57:27Z")
How strange. I can possibly see the angle that Bubba would throw an almightily violent rage-fit when the DM killed off his 20th level Kobold thief, but still…isn’t fantasizing about a world other than that which they are currently in what prisoners do to pass the time? I can think of books that they are allowed to read that are quite a bit more subversive than playing D&D. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/45 "2010-01-28T00:04:11Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > /_Incredibly nerdy pedantic nitpick_/ > > Magic Missiles don’t require a ‘to hit’ role and allow no saving throw. /_Incredibly nerdy pedantic nitpick_/ Under current 4th edition rules, you roll it Int against Reflex defense and do 2d4 plus Intelligence Modifier damage. Also it counts as a ranged basic attack. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/46 "2010-01-28T00:10:07Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You have described the way it works for the rich and powerful. Hey - even the rich and powerful need justice in civil cases! 😛 And thank God for that, means I can pay my mortgage. I’m always surprised at the success of summary judgment motions even between large parties, both ably (and expensively) represented. While it doesn’t always get rid of the whole of the case, it’s pretty common that the case gets trimmed down at that stage. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/47 "2010-01-28T00:50:22Z")
If the prison officials had said openly: “Prison is for punishment; forbidding fun things makes the punishment worse, and thus more of a deterrent; D&D is fun, so we’re forbidding it,” I could respect that. I might not agree with it, but it would be rationally related to a penal purpose. And I certainly don’t think that anybody, much less a prisoner, has a constitutional right to play D&D. But D&D promotes gang activity or is a security risk? Nope. Not rational, not even remotely related to any existing evidence. If this is a rational basis, anything is; you might as well get rid of the rational basis test completely. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/48 "2010-01-28T01:11:53Z")
Prison security officials are given wide latitude in deciding what inmate group activities are and are not allowed. Period. The concept of “freedom of association” doesn’t go very far in correctional institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/49 "2010-01-28T01:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > That said, prison wouldn’t be much of a punishment if people like me were allowed to play D & D to while away the time. It would be like getting lifetime appointment to District Court. That’s because people like you probably don’t go to prison in great numbers. I suspect most folks who end up in prison would view hanging out with nerds as itself a punishment. Meanwhile, I think it’s a great idea for prisoners to develop new, non-destructive hobbies in the Big House. Learning to spend their time rolling dice and talking about magic (and incidentally, getting along with other people) is probably a lot better than beating up random people for wearing the wrong clothes, or shooting up drugs, or whatever they were doing before they went in. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/50 "2010-01-28T01:35:41Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > /_Incredibly nerdy pedantic nitpick_/ > > Magic Missiles don’t require a ‘to hit’ role and allow no saving throw. But, under 1st Edition rules, they may be blocked by magic resistance; absorbed by a broach of shielding; reflected by a ring (can’t remember the name), absorbed by a Staff of the Magi (or Power), captured by a ring of spell storing; or blocked by minor globe of invulnerability, globe of invulnerability, or prismatic sphere. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/51 "2010-01-28T01:54:39Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Well, once they find out about all those Dwarven abilities, they’d try to get all the people under 4 feet tall to help them tunnel out. 😉 Why tunnel? A teleportation spell is all you need. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/52 "2010-01-28T02:05:21Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > “okay, roll to see if cast magic missile worked …” I think the issue is not whether a MM can be dodged, but rather the fact that the spell itself has a chance of failing. If your mage is too dumb to reliably cast a 1st level spell, your party is in big trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/53 "2010-01-28T02:39:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It has, and I never practiced civil law at all, so the whole notion of summary judgement is theoretical to me – I guess the closest criminal analog would be a motion to quash the indictment. > > But I do remember that long-ago Civil Pro class and the **distinction between Rule 56 and 12(b)(6) motions, at least, as I say, in theory**. (my bolding) I have no idea what that means and I will report your post:D ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/54 "2010-01-28T02:51:55Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Prison security officials are given wide latitude in deciding what inmate group activities are and are not allowed. Period. The concept of “freedom of association” doesn’t go very far in correctional institutions. Would that include gathering around a television for say, the Superbowl? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/55 "2010-01-28T04:30:10Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > (my bolding) > I have no idea what that means and I will report your post:D I’d guess they refer to some addendum to AD&D but I gave up on D&D when I opened the box and realized I needed more geekish friends and MUCH more spare time than I was willing to pretend to be someone else, this being decades before internet message boards. My daughter has a friend who violated what even I know is the Cardinal Rule: Don’t date your Dungeon Master. Yes, it turned out as badly as you might guess, though she managed to turn aside all of his spells, they not being real and all. ETA: Okay, it was all the dice that first scared me. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/56 "2010-01-28T04:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t date your Dungeon Master. Yeah, we have that rule in prison too. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/57 "2010-01-28T04:42:58Z")
But IRL it’s easier to enforce. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/58 "2010-01-28T04:51:15Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > (my bolding) > I have no idea what that means and I will report your post:D Briefly put: Rule 56: “Even if that’s true, you’re still full of shit.” Rule 12(b)(6): “What in God’s name are you talking about?” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/59 "2010-01-28T07:43:05Z")
Y’know, I sat in while too many of these extralegal debates took place. Eventually I wandered off to the vending machine and bought myself a grape soda, hoping against any form of hope a decision would be reached before I returned. I wasn’t a player and had only a grape soda between me, you idiots (a generic term intended as descriptive, not overly offensive), and hitting the rack on the nearest sofa. Took a call from my future wife: “Yeah, I’m sleeping with Cathy…but she’s on the other el of the sofa.” Wife didn’t find it funny, and the game went on. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/60 "2010-01-28T07:43:44Z")
Maybe they should have asked a guard to DM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664.md?page=4)