# No Dungeons and Dragons in prison **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664 "2010-01-27T18:05:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/61 "2010-01-28T07:44:28Z")
that could be really cool ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/62 "2010-01-28T07:57:59Z")
Meh. Dude beat a guy to death with a hammer. I don’t have a problem with him losing his Player’s Handbook privileges. And the whole “D&D promotes gang behavior” thing gives me a warm glow of nostalgia for the '80s D&D Satanism panic. It’s kind of amazing how many people back then thought that Jack Chick’s “Dungeons of Darkness” was a reasonable scenario. Anyway, the fact that this asshole needs a book and dice to run a game just shows what sort of tyro he really is. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/63 "2010-01-28T08:03:10Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why tunnel? A teleportation spell is all you need. Don’t be silly. Waupaun is a maximum security prison. It wouldn’t be much of a secure jail if it hadn’t a permanent Enlarged Antimagic Field cast on it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/64 "2010-01-28T13:25:20Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Would that include gathering around a television for say, the Superbowl? It would. However, wardens and other security folk like to keep the climate comfortable at an institution. So it’d be unlikely they’d restrict the general population from watching the super bowl. They’d watch it the same way they get to watch regular tv, in most cases: On the unit TV in relatively small groups. Act up and get sent to your cell. Where you may or may not have your own TV, depending on your privileges, etc. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/65 "2010-01-28T18:04:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It has, and I never practiced civil law at all, so the whole notion of summary judgement is theoretical to me – I guess the closest criminal analog would be a motion to quash the indictment. > > But I do remember that long-ago Civil Pro class and the distinction between Rule 56 and 12(b)(6) motions, at least, as I say, in theory. And I should apologize because I didn’t mean to scold you and it came off that way. I’m sorry. The more I practice, the more cynical I get about courts. We were all taught that version of summary judgment (SJ ain’t Society of Jesus in the law, despite being taught law by Jesuits). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/66 "2010-01-28T19:12:10Z")
Does this mean they only took his materials? Can he (or the generic prisoner) continue to play using memorized rules? Can the warden prohibit him from playing even if playing consisted entirely of talking with other prisoners? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/67 "2010-01-28T21:58:43Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > No. Nothing about the game of D&D would give a person any real life guidance about how to escape from prison. A game scenario would be something like this: > > Player 1: I try to escape from prison! > (Dungeon Master rolls dice) > DM: You successfully escape! To be fair, that’s not a scenario I’d run or want to play in. Player 1: I try to escape from prison! DM: How? Player 1: I bend back the bars. DM: When you try, the guard threatens to skewer you with his spear. Player 1: I try to bribe the guard. DM: With what? You have no money. Player 1: I tell him I have 100 silver pieces back home that I’ll bring to him. DM: He laughs in your face. One of the first scenarios that I ever ran was a prison escape. I designed it to be impossible to escape. No found key, no hidden doors, nothing. The players figured out something on their own. Damn liberal DM. Putting heros right back on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/68 "2010-01-28T22:04:52Z")
Fundamental flaw in character creation, the dude in the OP’s wisdom was too low. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/69 "2010-01-29T01:38:11Z")
> [@](#): > > One of the first scenarios that I ever ran was a prison escape. I designed it to be impossible to escape. No found key, no hidden doors, nothing. The players figured out something on their own. They had the elf in the next building miswrite a magic a fireball spell for a magic competition and accidentally blow down the prison wall? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/70 "2010-01-29T02:17:12Z")
I agree that this is just stupid. D&D (and other role-playing games) enjoy great popularity among members of the military because they make being confined to base \*, eating crap food, and the boredom of routine all more bearable. It really does sound to me, all humor aside, that they decided that the inmates had found a way to make life less horrible- so they banned it. If they were playing certain games that allowed or even encouraged the characters to behave like real world criminals (Say a Cainite running a street gang or selling drugs in Vampire The Masquerade, or a hacker performing cybercrimes in Shadowrun, or especially a character who is a hitman in GhostDog), I could understand the decision. But D&D is not like that. Even an evil thief character relies upon outdated methods of centuries ago and magics that just don’t work in reality. A party of characters does work like a gang in some ways- as does any group of people. I find the decision cruel, stupid and ridiculous. - I’ve heard, sadly without cite, that D&D is wildly popular on submarine crews. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/71 "2010-01-29T02:30:43Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Does this mean they only took his materials? Can he (or the generic prisoner) continue to play using memorized rules? Can the warden prohibit him from playing even if playing consisted entirely of talking with other prisoners? My brother and I used to play RPGs when we were little kids. When we effectively stopped doing our homework, our parents took away our books on schoolnights. So we played from memory instead and used a deck of cards to generate random numbers. Our parents thought about it for awhile and just returned our materials during the week. It was kind of an interesting problem. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/72 "2010-01-29T02:45:49Z")
A friend of mine was involved with a case in Texas a year or two ago where the state was trying to execute a man whose attorney was claiming him to be mentally retarded. The D.A. was trying to gather evidence evidence to the contrary. In the prisoner’s cell, they found a copy of one of the D&D players’ handbooks. Apparently it’s a popular game in Texas prisons, too. The D.A. tried to get the author of the book to come and testify that any inmate capable of reading and understanding that book and the game itself must not be mentally retarded. The author refused. We never found out if they found someone else to do the job. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/73 "2010-01-29T17:32:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They had the elf in the next building miswrite a magic a fireball spell for a magic competition and accidentally blow down the prison wall? Wow, it’s like you were there. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/74 "2010-01-29T18:57:35Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > /_Incredibly nerdy pedantic nitpick_/ Under current 4th edition rules, you roll it Int against Reflex defense and do 2d4 plus Intelligence Modifier damage. > > Also it counts as a ranged basic attack. > > 😃 I heard a rumor about this new accursed 4th Edition, I’m glad they never went forward with publishing it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/75 "2010-01-29T20:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Wow, it’s like you were there. No, I just read the book. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/76 "2010-01-29T23:11:35Z")
At first I was :rolleyes:, but then I remembered that D&D is pretty much roleplaying as graverobbers &/or thuggish “samurai” types (not a compliment). Yeah, I can see why a prison wouldn’t want to encourage that sort of antisocial power fantasy, & its unrealistic reward system ([Sorting Algorithm of Evil](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfEvil), anyone?) I know too many people who use it just to play evil characters, & even the good characters aren’t such hot role models. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/77 "2010-01-29T23:13:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ETA: also mentioned as a rationale was the idea that D&D could foster gang activity because the game emulates gang strcuture. One player, the Dungeon Master, gives absolute guidance and direction to subordinate players, exactly as a gang boss gives direction to his subordinates. Oh, well, that’s dumb. The DM is often the _antagonist_. That said, a DM who acted as wise leader & protector, acting in collusion with his charges, that could be ganglike. Crap, that’s not dumb after all.:eek: > [@Blalron](#): > > The Dungeon Master creates the setting of the game, but he’s not supposed to direct players how they act. Whether a player succeeds at a particular action depends upon his character’s statistics and the roll of the dice. Consider what happens if someone who’s already a controlling ‘gang boss’ personality is DM, & does it his way, rather than the standard way. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/78 "2010-01-29T23:43:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > But, under 1st Edition rules, they may be blocked by magic resistance; absorbed by a broach of shielding; reflected by a ring (can’t remember the name), absorbed by a Staff of the Magi (or Power), captured by a ring of spell storing; or blocked by minor globe of invulnerability, globe of invulnerability, or prismatic sphere. > 😛 MR yes; brooch (note spelling) yes; _ring of spell turning_ (usually results in caster and target each taking partial damage); _staff of the magi_ yes; _staff of power_ no; _ring of spell storing_ only if the spell is deliberately cast into it as a recharge (but a _rod of absorption_ will do what you want); and to the listed spells add _shield_. Also a _scarab of protection_ allows a special save (net 20, with automatic +1 for the _scarab_ itself and any general saving throw bonuses from other items and spells). Don’t make me come over there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664/79 "2010-01-30T10:57:41Z")
If people find out they can play D&D in prison, and if rumor shows they can have cheetos and mountain dew, watch the crime rate jump! I’ve always been sort of interested in D&D, my first time actually playing, we spent 7 hours on character building, came back the next night for the (obviously sucky) GM to run a game that allowed his psycho girlfriend to derail the game and have everyone around the forest for 5 hours looking for a lost dog she “found.” Needless to say, there was no night 3. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-dungeons-and-dragons-in-prison/526664.md?page=3)