# No exclusionism. Unless it reflects \*our\* bias. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049 "2018-03-22T23:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/61 "2018-03-23T22:30:02Z")
Idiots thinking “con-men” are a protected class? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/62 "2018-03-23T22:34:38Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > … > Now how 'bout we get back to the topic of this thread, shall we? Bring us back on track, then. Say something concerning the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/63 "2018-03-23T22:45:07Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But if you need to ask how the Trump administration has been in any way harmful or detrimental to LGBTQ rights then, to be quite frank, you haven’t been paying attention. > > Here’s a pretty decent run-down from a [New Yorker article](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-trump-uses-religious-liberty-to-attack-lgbt-rights):That article was from October last year. Here’s a [Politico article](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/19/trump-lgbt-rights-discrimination-353774) from a month ago that goes into more detail. And a [December article](https://www.lambdalegal.org/blog/20171220_trumps-judicial-assault-on-lgbt-rights) from the gay rights group Lambda Legal. > There are reasonable arguments to be made about whether company boycotts, especially of relatively small companies like this, do more harm than good in the long run. But if you’re going to let a Republican President use your factory floor to make a political speech in support of a Republican political candidate—which was, as you noted in your OP, the specific reason for Trump’s visit to the factory—then it’s not just the boycotters and the tweeters who have politicized your little chocolate enterprise. And i would say the same thing for a business that allowed Obama to make a political speech in support of a Democratic candidate. All right, that is sobering. I stand informed. FTR, though, Trump wasn’t there; it was Donald Jr. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Czarcasm** > “She didn’t have the right tone of voice, so I’m going to vote for a bigoted con artist!” > > Yeah, that makes a shitload of sense, doesn’t it? Right; that’s precisely what I was saying. You sure did read for content. As far as **Miller** and gay rights, what I meant was, I **don’t** have personal experience with LGBTQ people, so I can’t have an informed opinion on those issues, and **Miller** does. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/64 "2018-03-23T22:58:04Z")
FWIW, those who are saying they’re boycotting Sarris – have you ever _had_ Sarris candy? 😉 They could be the official chocolate supplier to the Nazi Party, and ISIS, and I’d still patronize them. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/65 "2018-03-23T23:09:51Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > As far as **Miller** and gay rights, what I meant was, I **don’t** have personal experience with LGBTQ people, so I can’t have an informed opinion on those issues, and **Miller** does. Keep reading this over and over until the light goes on: > [@mhendo](#): > > I’m not gay, and you could argue that the changing attitudes to homosexuality and same-sex marriage and transgender rights over the past couple of decades have not “personally affected” me in any direct and tangible way, especially when compared to an actual LGBTQ person. > > But i support those changes wholeheartedly because i believe that they make our society a better place, and because i believe that they correct historical injustices and inequities that we as a society should be concerned about. And i oppose efforts to roll back the gains in LGBTQ rights for exactly the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/66 "2018-03-23T23:28:44Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > … I **don’t** have personal experience with LGBTQ people, so I can’t have an informed opinion on those issues, and **Miller** does. This has to be the dumbest statement yet in a thread full of them. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/67 "2018-03-24T00:05:24Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > As far as **Miller** and gay rights, what I meant was, I **don’t** have personal experience with LGBTQ people, so I can’t have an informed opinion on those issues, and **Miller** does. Of course you can. Start with the premise they are people just like you. Ask yourself how’d _you_ feel if you were denied the right to marry, serve in the armed forces (because you’d just be too perverted), could be denied services because someone didn’t like the category of people you wanted to marry, be fired from your job because people don’t like heterosexuals etc. Empathy is just not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/68 "2018-03-24T00:14:00Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Of course you can. Start with the premise they are people just like you. > > Ask yourself how’d _you_ feel if you were denied the right to marry, serve in the armed forces (because you’d just be too perverted), could be denied services because someone didn’t like the category of people you wanted to marry, be fired from your job because people don’t like heterosexuals etc. > > Empathy is just not that hard. Not just denied services because of marriage, but denied services because you are gay or trans and someone just doesn’t want to, say, give life-saving treatment to “your kind.” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/69 "2018-03-24T00:35:39Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > Not just denied services because of marriage, but denied services because you are gay or trans and someone just doesn’t want to, say, give life-saving treatment to “your kind.” Absolutely. I was trying to keep it short. An exhaustive list would go on and on. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/70 "2018-03-24T00:46:20Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Of course you can. Start with the premise they are people just like you. > > Ask yourself how’d _you_ feel if you were denied the right to marry, serve in the armed forces (because you’d just be too perverted), could be denied services because someone didn’t like the category of people you wanted to marry, be fired from your job because people don’t like heterosexuals etc. > > \*\*Empathy is just not that hard. \*\* I think for some people it is. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/71 "2018-03-24T00:49:15Z")
My husband’s aunt is mostly on with “them queers” but trans? Naw, trans children don’t even deserve to be allowed to use the same bathroom as decent people. I’m fact, and this is really her opinion and what was the catalyst for a particular split in the family, they don’t even deserve indoor toilets- make 'em shit outside like animals. Eta: same with moos-lems. She considers herself a devout Christian lady, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/72 "2018-03-24T01:21:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > With the America-hating fuckstick as the customer, I’d see a good argument for tacking on a _having-to-deal-with-an-America-hating-fuckstick_ surcharge. > > Also for demanding cash in payment, in advance. I gain certain amount of satisfaction when I go to one of these fuckstick’s homes, reset a tripped circuit breaker and hand them a bill for $400. Civilly and professionally. Because I don’t drag my backpack full of gear into Manhattan on the subway for less than that. Of course, if it was a client I actually liked I’d either wave it off or settle for $80 or so cash. This is what I mean when I say I don’t do these guys any favors. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/73 "2018-03-24T01:52:27Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > My husband’s aunt is mostly on with “them queers” but trans? Naw, trans children don’t even deserve to be allowed to use the same bathroom as decent people. I’m fact, and this is really her opinion and what was the catalyst for a particular split in the family, they don’t even deserve indoor toilets- make 'em shit outside like animals. > > Eta: same with moos-lems. She considers herself a devout Christian lady, too. I would like to point out something else: when this loving Christian broke with us, she said I was trash and nothing to her. Because I thought transsexual children were people, too. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/74 "2018-03-24T02:02:59Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > As far as **Miller** and gay rights, what I meant was, I **don’t** have personal experience with LGBTQ people, so I can’t have an informed opinion on those issues, and **Miller** does. If you don’t think you have any personal experience with LGBTQ people you either live in a cave, or people are afraid of how you will react if they out themselves to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/75 "2018-03-24T03:36:35Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Empathy is just not that hard. > [@raventhief](#): > > I think for some people it is. Well, those people deserve to butchered slowly by clumsy but dogged serial killers. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/76 "2018-03-24T03:41:12Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > But…can you give me a cite, a cite about a specific **action** Trump has taken **as President** that is harmful or detrimental to LGBTQ rights? [You were saying?](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/23/politics/transgender-white-house/index.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/77 "2018-03-24T03:52:22Z")
Well, shit. ☹ Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/78 "2018-03-24T04:29:08Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > My husband’s aunt is mostly on with “them queers” but trans? Naw, trans children don’t even deserve to be allowed to use the same bathroom as decent people. I’m fact, and this is really her opinion and what was the catalyst for a particular split in the family, they don’t even deserve indoor toilets- make 'em shit outside like animals. > > Eta: same with moos-lems. She considers herself a devout Christian lady, too. I’m sure her last statement is correct. Being a bigot is not incompatible with being a devout Christian. (And devout Christians can be moral also, of course.) Plenty of the cops who beat the Selma marchers no doubt considered themselves devout Christians. I’m sure many if not most of those who oppressed my ancestors were also. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/79 "2018-03-24T04:31:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you don’t think you have any personal experience with LGBTQ people you either live in a cave, or people are afraid of how you will react if they out themselves to you. Merely knowing someone who is LGBT isn’t the same thing as having a close enough relationship that you’ve talked about LGBT issues with them. I admit, in real life, I know a few gay people, but I’ve never had any conversation about any of this stuff with them. What I know I know from just intentionally seeking it out online, which it appears **Rilchiam** has not done. That anti-trans military thing was widely known. He has a point that he can’t have actual experiential knowledge, and that probably tempers his emotional intelligence on the subject. But that’s not the only form of knowledge out there. I invite him to read up from the many LGBT people like **Miller** who have detailed all this stuff. Google is rather easy to use. Here’s an example search: [LGBT against Trump](https://www.google.com/search?q=lgbt+against+trump). Tons of stuff about what he and his administration have been doing–and how the LGBT community is fighting back. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049/80 "2018-03-24T04:31:53Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > As far as **Miller** and gay rights, what I meant was, I **don’t** have personal experience with LGBTQ people, so I can’t have an informed opinion on those issues, and **Miller** does. I’m not gay, but I do have “personal experience” with gay people, but my opposition to bigotry is not a result of that. Any attack on a gay person is an attack on me, and it should be an attack on you also. This is not difficult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-exclusionism-unless-it-reflects-our-bias/811049.md?page=5)