# No, Gawker, man did not "Stage\[\] Kidnapping to Be a Hero, Accidentally Kill\[\] His Hostage." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731 "2013-05-30T17:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/21 "2013-05-30T19:29:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What I don’t get is how do we know any of this story is true? > > Just because the alleged kidnapper tells us this is what happened? We don’t know that it’s true, but it’s what the police are saying he did. They do have some credibility here. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, there’s the body of a dead fifteen-year-old. And the accused’s DNA on clothing left at the victim’s last known location. And a faked Facebook page with an IP stamp pointing to the accused’s house. And there is the additional testimony of the uninvolved brother and girlfriend of the accused. And, of course, the accused’s affidavit, suggesting that he made these statements with the benefit of counsel. > > Now, perhaps there’s a good, non-kidnapping-and-felony-murder explanation for all this. But I’ve got to be honest, I’m having a hard time conjuring any such explanation up. She’s asking about the “I was trying to fake-kidnap her” part, not the entire story. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/22 "2013-05-30T19:37:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Isn’t this all a bit premature? We don’t know how she died yet; there’s every chance he killed her on purpose. People don’t just expire because they are tossed in the back of a pickup truck. Seems you’re brighter than the OP. Since we don’t know how she died, there may have been an underlying medical condition involved and the idiot was in a very wrong place at the wrong time. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/23 "2013-05-30T19:42:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > She’s asking about the “I was trying to fake-kidnap her” part, not the entire story. That’s why it is so important, as per my OP, to emphasize that there is no difference between “fake” kidnappings (when the victim is not in on the prank) and real kidnappings. There is no difference because they are precisely the same thing: plain old regular kidnapping. So, by saying, “The accused has explained this by saying he meant only to stage a fake kidnapping,” we are muddying the waters, and obscuring the equally true fact that “the accused explained this by saying he planned and executed a kidnapping of the victim.” Do we need to delve into the mind of the perp to determine if he subjectively understood this kidnapping as a fun practical joke? Nope! Because the uncontested account of what went down makes out all the elements of real-deal kidnapping. And there is no affirmative defense “I was just having a lark!” to real-deal kidnapping. So, we should all be utterly uninterested in how he personally justified the commission of a felony to himself. Who cares?!? Enjoy your lifetime vacation to Maine State Prison! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/24 "2013-05-30T19:53:53Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > That’s why it is so important, as per my OP, to emphasize that there is no difference between “fake” kidnappings (when the victim is not in on the prank) and real kidnappings. There is no difference because they are precisely the same thing: plain old regular kidnapping. Nobody disagrees with this, but Gawker wrote a headline that gave more information. They’re a news outlet, not an indictment handed in by a prosecutor. > [@](#): > > So, we should all be utterly uninterested in how he personally justified the commission of a felony to himself. Who cares?!? Enjoy your lifetime vacation to Maine State Prison! This case seems to have gotten a lot of news coverage precisely because of the weird circumstances behind it. Maybe your argument is with people who read crazy news stories, not Gawker. Of course, _you_ read this story… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/25 "2013-05-30T20:03:58Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Seems you’re brighter than the OP. Since we don’t know how she died, there may have been an underlying medical condition involved and the idiot was in a very wrong place at the wrong time. Or she may have had a cold and a blocked nose, and the duct tape on her mouth meant she suffocated. And I’m sure one of the lawyers will correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t matter HOW a victim died in the felony murder laws - if you kidnap someone, and they have a heart attack, or a stroke, or fall down the stairs, or any damn thing while they are your prisoner, you have committed murder. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/26 "2013-05-30T20:05:27Z")
And who has said otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/27 "2013-05-30T20:07:46Z")
I think **Lute Skywatcher** did, with his “underlying medical condition” and “wrong place at the wrong time” comment. Still murder. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/28 "2013-05-30T20:09:19Z")
**Man Kidnaps Woman with Intent (Per His Own Recounting) to Subsequently Stage Rescue; Accidentally Kills Her (Which Act None-the-Less Legally Qualifies as Murder); Sundry Additional Details as Reported by our Correspondent Upon the Scene** ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/29 "2013-05-30T20:09:44Z")
You seem to be reading more into that than is there. Same with the headline. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/30 "2013-05-30T20:10:40Z")
Again, he didn’t stage a fake kidnapping. He really kidnapped her. The only thing that he was going to fake was the rescue. It was a real kidnapping with a staged rescue, except he accidentally killed his victim while really abducting her. It is fucking nonsense to say he “staged” the kidnapping, unless you can say that the next time I go to a bank and point a gun at the teller and demand the money I’m staging a bank robbery. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/31 "2013-05-30T20:20:34Z")
Exactly. He may not have actually intended to kill the girl, but he did intend to kidnap her because that is what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/32 "2013-05-30T20:25:19Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Or she may have had a cold and a blocked nose, and the duct tape on her mouth meant she suffocated. And I’m sure one of the lawyers will correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t matter HOW a victim died in the felony murder laws - if you kidnap someone, and they have a heart attack, or a stroke, or fall down the stairs, or any damn thing while they are your prisoner, you have committed murder. > [@](#): > > Title 17-A: MAINE CRIMINAL CODE > Part 2: SUBSTANTIVE OFFENSES > Chapter 9: OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON > §202. Felony murder > > 1. A person is guilty of felony murder if acting alone or with one or more other persons in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, or immediate flight after committing or attempting to commit, murder, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, arson, gross sexual assault, or escape, the person or another participant in fact causes the death of a human being, and the death is a reasonably foreseeable consequence of such commission, attempt or flight. We don’t yet know if he caused her death nor if her death was a resonably forseeable consequence of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/33 "2013-05-30T20:28:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Again, he didn’t stage a fake kidnapping. He really kidnapped her. The only thing that he was going to fake was the rescue. I said that an hour ago. [QUOTE=Lemur866] It is fucking nonsense to say he “staged” the kidnapping, unless you can say that the next time I go to a bank and point a gun at the teller and demand the money I’m staging a bank robbery. [/QUOTE] If you’re robbing to the bank in disguise so you can pretend to break up the robbery and look like a hero later, yes, I might say that’s staged. The point is that the scheme involved not just kidnapping, but deception afterward. The headline makes that clear, and the objection is really pretty dumb. Gawker describes the kidnapping and makes it sound plenty real, and notes that he was charged with kidnapping. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/34 "2013-05-30T20:29:38Z")
That is near a common use of the word “stage” actually. It usually gets applied when there is a conspiracy to accomplish the crime. “The gang staged an armored car heist” is using staging Staging in the sense that a number of criminals have to follow a plan in a way similar to how a theater company follows a script. It does not imply that the crime is faked. In this case it was a one man show, but he was following a script of sorts. In the OP case, the perpetrator WAS committing real crimes, AND conducting a bit of theater to try to impress the victim. Just as TSA conducts real searches while performing theater to make some of the passengers feel safe. Perhaps we should object when the police conduct a search. They have no baton, and no score, and no musicians…how is that possibly conducting? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/35 "2013-05-30T20:30:06Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Again, he didn’t stage a fake kidnapping. He really kidnapped her. The only thing that he was going to fake was the rescue. It was a real kidnapping with a staged rescue, except he accidentally killed his victim while really abducting her. > > It is fucking nonsense to say he “staged” the kidnapping, unless you can say that the next time I go to a bank and point a gun at the teller and demand the money I’m staging a bank robbery. The purpose of a headline is to give an idea of the contents if a story in as few words as possible, not to construct a legally defensible description if the events – the use of the word “staged” here gives the reader enough of an idea that there is something different about this kidnapping story. After all, the probability that the girl had been abducted had been known for months. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/36 "2013-05-30T20:32:15Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > No, Gawker, man did not [“Stage[] Kidnapping to Be a Hero, Accidentally Kill[] His Hostage.”](http://gawker.com/man-stages-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kills-510455504) … Shitty news sources contain shitty journalism. Film at 11! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/37 "2013-05-30T20:35:36Z")
No one has shown any actual errors in the story. They’re just bring pedantic about the word choices in the headline. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/38 "2013-05-30T20:43:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No one has shown any actual errors in the story. They’re just bring pedantic about the word choices in the headline. Does anyone who dislikes the headline want to try writing a better one - one that’s “accurate” and still catches a reader’s interest? Gawker’s headline is 66 characters including spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/39 "2013-05-30T20:43:29Z")
I thought my headline was pretty good. Although in retrospect I probably should have listed their ages. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-gawker-man-did-not-stage-kidnapping-to-be-a-hero-accidentally-kill-his-hostage/659731/40 "2013-05-30T20:45:38Z")
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