# No House of Representatives vote on Impeachment. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060 "2019-10-20T23:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/1 "2019-10-20T23:31:45Z")
Are any subpoenas legally binding without a vote? Lawyers comments would be welcome. Here’s a link. > **[Pelosi Gaslighting Continues - False Claims: Administration "defying lawful...](https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2019/10/20/pelosi-gaslighting-continues-false-claims-administration-defying-lawful-subpoenas-document-requests/)** > > Nancy Pelosi continues to mislead her ‘impeachment’ constituents.  Unfortunately the compliant media is refusing to hold her accountable.  House Democrat leadership has taken a climate assessment of democrat House members and Speaker Pelosi... What do Lawyers say? I think the analysis is correct. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/2 "2019-10-20T23:39:37Z")
The analysis is fatally flawed. For one thing, the assertion that the votes aren’t there is incorrect. More importantly, the subpoena powers are in fact legally binding. > **[Congressional Subpoena Power and Executive Privilege: The Coming Showdown...](https://www.lawfareblog.com/congressional-subpoena-power-and-executive-privilege-coming-showdown-between-branches)** > > With the new Democratic majority in the House of Representatives sporting an aggressive oversight agenda on national security and foreign policy issues, it’s only a matter of time before a raft of congressional subpoenas are fired off from Capitol... > **[Contempt of Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress)** > > Contempt of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees. Historically, the bribery of a U.S. senator or U.S. representative was considered contempt of Congress. In modern times, contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a congressional committee or subcommittee—usually seeking to compel either testimony or the production of requested documents. > In the late 1790s, declaring contempt of Cong... ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/3 "2019-10-20T23:42:28Z")
The judge at FOX news disagrees with the OP: > **[Fox & Friends hosts deflated after legal analyst shoots down latest GOP...](https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/fox-friends-hosts-deflated-after-legal-analyst-shoots-down-latest-gop-impeachment-talking-point/)** > > The hosts of "Fox & Friends" on Thursday appeared disappointed when legal analyst Andrew Napolitano gave them unfortunate news about the White House's latest objections to House Democrats' impeachment inquiry.Specifically, Napolitano addressed... > [@](#): > > The hosts of “Fox & Friends” on Thursday appeared disappointed when legal analyst Andrew Napolitano gave them unfortunate news about the White House’s latest objections to House Democrats’ impeachment inquiry. > > Specifically, Napolitano addressed the letter sent to Congress by White House counsel Pat Cipollone, which claimed that the executive branch did not have to comply with any subpoenas of documents until the House formally voted to open an impeachment inquiry. > > “The Republicans changed the rules when John Boehner was the Speaker of the House allowing each individual committee to issue subpoenas without a House-wide vote,” he explained. “So those subpoenas are valid, and those people who resist them, ignore them, who put them in a drawer, do so at your peril.” ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/4 "2019-10-20T23:54:36Z")
> [@mjmlabs](#): > > The analysis is fatally flawed. For one thing, the assertion that the votes aren’t there is incorrect. More importantly, the subpoena powers are in fact legally binding. > > [Congressional Subpoena Power and Executive Privilege: The Coming Showdown Between the Branches | Lawfare](https://www.lawfareblog.com/congressional-subpoena-power-and-executive-privilege-coming-showdown-between-branches) > > [Contempt of Congress - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress) I thought Eric Holder proved that Congress is toothless when it comes to subpoenas. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/5 "2019-10-20T23:56:00Z")
> [@mjmlabs](#): > > The analysis is fatally flawed. For one thing, the assertion that the votes aren’t there is incorrect. More importantly, the subpoena powers are in fact legally binding. > > [Congressional Subpoena Power and Executive Privilege: The Coming Showdown Between the Branches | Lawfare](https://www.lawfareblog.com/congressional-subpoena-power-and-executive-privilege-coming-showdown-between-branches) > > [Contempt of Congress - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress) On the other question, shouldn’t they actually vote first? ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/6 "2019-10-21T00:06:30Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > I thought Eric Holder proved that Congress is toothless when it comes to subpoenas. Perhaps you should read Post #3. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/7 "2019-10-21T00:07:30Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > On the other question, shouldn’t they actually vote first? … Why? Would that somehow lead to increased compliance from the White House? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/8 "2019-10-21T00:31:53Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > I thought Eric Holder proved that Congress is toothless when it comes to subpoenas. That is just a toothless moving of the goal posts. Back then the Justice Department decided not to prosecute because of executive privilege, and [Trump already did neuter other subpoenas by claiming executive privilege.](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/454606-doj-says-it-wont-prosecute-barr-ross-after-house-criminal-contempt)\* However, this time the subpoenas are related to the impeachment of the president, it may happen again that he will try to stop this by claiming executive privilege but the spectacle of seeing the Justice Department following privilege from the target as reasons to not prosecute, is bound to be more damaging to Trump and the Republicans. - This also underscores how shitty is The Conservative Tree house as a source. The subpoenas are valid, but the source omitted the detail that in the recent past that some are still ineffective later and under some circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/9 "2019-10-21T00:37:27Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > I thought Eric Holder proved that Congress is toothless when it comes to subpoenas. Did the House vote on those subpoenas? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/10 "2019-10-21T00:38:12Z")
The House determines its own rules. They are spelled out nowhere in the Constitution. No matter what the White House says, the House gets to determine how to investigate and how to conduct an impeachment inquiry. Trump’s bluster may impress his Twitter followers but it means nothing to a lawyer. And the House is full of them, while Trump’s idiot “lawyer” couldn’t pass a first year exam. [Vox.com](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/9/20905503/trump-white-house-letter-democrats-impeachment) > [@](#): > > Ilya Somin, law professor, George Mason University > > There is room for reasonable disagreement about many aspects of impeachment, including the fairness of the procedures used by the House. But Cipollone’s arguments simply don’t pass the laugh test. [Lawfareblog.com](https://www.lawfareblog.com/cipollone-letter-trouble-white-house-counsels-office) > [@](#): > > As Keith Whittington and Frank Bowman have shown, the letter’s constitutional and “legal” arguments are baseless. It misrepresents the constitutional law and precedent that it is pleading on the president’s behalf. On the merits, it is an exceptionally weak performance. Add to this another deficiency: its glaring failure to effectively represent the institutional interests of the presidency. [NBCnews.com](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/law-classmates-tell-trump-lawyer-cipollone-he-distorts-constitution-blocking-n1064821) > [@](#): > > Law classmates of White House Counsel Pat Cipollone sent him a letter on Thursday, claiming his decision to block material and witnesses from the House impeachment inquiry “distorts the law and the Constitution,” according to a copy of the letter obtained by NBC News. > > “We are sorry to see how your letter to the congressional leadership flouts the traditions of rigor and intellectual honesty that we learned together,” said the letter from members of the class of 1991 at the University of Chicago Law School. [JustSecurity.com](https://www.justsecurity.org/66525/two-major-distortions-in-the-white-houses-scorched-earth-letter-to-congress/) > [@](#): > > This analysis does not attempt to catalogue all of the distortions of law and unfounded allegations in the letter, but rather to focus on two particularly pernicious aspects of it that should not get lost amidst airing of technical issues. > > The White House letter distorts the nature of the impeachment inquiry and the purpose of impeachment > > The letter seeks to turn the subject matter of the inquiry on its head – Trump’s call was plainly not “completely appropriate” I could go on and on. It’s fun reading how astoundingly incompetent Trump’s lackeys are. They can fool you, but actual experts blow them away like dandelion puff. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/11 "2019-10-21T00:41:02Z")
Vox and lawfare? WTF are you desperate? Seriously, why haven’t they had a vote? Should be easy, if you’re correct. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/12 "2019-10-21T00:45:34Z")
Seriously, why _should_ they have a vote? What would that accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/13 "2019-10-21T00:45:53Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > Vox and lawfare? WTF are you desperate? Seriously, why haven’t they had a vote? Should be easy, if you’re correct. Shooting the messenger is still a fallacy. They do not need a full House vote because the Republicans under [del]Ommpa Loompa[/del] Boener changed the rules in the House. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/14 "2019-10-21T01:02:04Z")
Has this been done? "The House’s Role The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry." What was the vote? Cite: [https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Impeachment/](https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Impeachment/) ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/15 "2019-10-21T01:06:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Shooting the messenger is still a fallacy. They do not need a full House vote because the Republicans under [del]Ommpa Loompa[/del] Boener changed the rules in the House. No Term can be held to the agreement of a previous term. House rules. But, you already knew that. Should I respond with a derogatory term for San Francisco Nancy Pelosi? ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/16 "2019-10-21T01:10:17Z")
> [@mjmlabs](#): > > Seriously, why _should_ they have a vote? What would that accomplish? ROFLMAO, sounds a lot like “Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ Badges…” A vote would give the House Legal Authority to compel witnesses to appear. I.E. a legal proceeding. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/17 "2019-10-21T01:10:24Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > No Term can be held to the agreement of a previous term. House rules. But, you already knew that. Should I respond with a derogatory term for San Francisco Nancy Pelosi? Useless retort, because the Democrats found the change to their liking in this term, thank you very much. And you still are not making any good impression by not dealing with your shooting the messenger move. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/18 "2019-10-21T01:10:45Z")
> [@Article 1 Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution](#): > > The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment. Their House, their rules. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/19 "2019-10-21T01:14:40Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > ROFLMAO, sounds a lot like “Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ Badges…” A vote would give the House Legal Authority to compel witnesses to appear. I.E. a legal proceeding. You seem to be failing to understand that the House already possesses “legal authority to compel witnesses to appear.” This has been asked and answered, repeatedly, in this thread. This sort of behavior has a name or two. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060/20 "2019-10-21T01:15:21Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Their House, their rules. OUR Constitution, unless you forgot. The fact you said theirs is troubling on it’s face. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-house-of-representatives-vote-on-impeachment/842060.md?page=2)