# No I can't use chopsticks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370 "2008-07-05T13:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/121 "2008-07-06T14:51:49Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] Doesn’t work with me - I may be a round-eyes, but I can eat with chopsticks just as fast as a knife and fork. [/QUOTE] You sure? One of the hallmark effects of psychological hidden persuaders is a straight up denial of their influence. You may be right, but playing the numbers, my money is on you unconsciously eating less. One of the interesting things about food psychology is that when people aren’t aware they’re being subtly manipulated to eat more or less, they still report feeling equally full and satisfied with their meal as compared with a control group. [QUOTE=John Mace] Why would they want you to eat less food? Most restaurants want you to eat lots of food so they can make more money. And if they are trying inconvenience you with utensils you can’t use well, then you’ll take longer to eat your meal and there will be less turnover in the place. [/QUOTE] Am I getting whooshed? Can you seriously not see why a restaurant would want to serve you less food? Restaurants do not want you to eat lots of food, they want you to eat as little food as possible while spending the largest amount of money. This is called “profit.” If they can get you to eat 600g of Sesame Chicken instead of 700g without being consciously aware of the difference, they will jump all over it like white on rice on a paper plate in a snowstorm. > [@John Mace](#): > > IOW, I think your claim doesn’t make sense. See, that’s the great thing about being right. I can try twelve ways from Sunday to explain it to you, but in the end, whether or not you agree, the scientific data is on _my_ side. In case you missed it, my cite is “Mindless Eating” by Brian Wansink. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/122 "2008-07-06T15:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] You are incredible. But, you made me laugh today so for that I’m grateful. Mercy, but this is entertaining. (not up on your colloquialisms are you? I just used another one! gadzooks! I can’t stop!) How do you know that **chowder** didn’t smile at the waiter? I was castigated for not smiling ENOUGH–which is different than not smiling at all. What is the exact ratio of smiling to requests that would satisfy you? What constitutes abuse in your eyes? A simple request for more customary cutlery is abuse? And who died and made you Arbiter of Proper Restaurant Manners? Tell you what. When you come to that Chinese restaurant and order whatever you like, and when you don’t get a fork and knife, you may go ahead and make your cheesey smile and bend over backwards for that waiter and then leave him a big tip and none of us will say a word. Scout’s honor (crikey! another one!) Who knew kiwi baiting could be so much fun? 😛 [/QUOTE] Smiling is bloody compulsory in Kiwi-Land! That’s how we get away with not tipping any bugger! My local Chinese “Love a Duck” brings every meal with chopsticks and FREE tea! It’s a fairly squalid kind of place if you want a fork there is a place you can find one but they certainly ain’t (oh look I used an Americanism!) bringing it to you. Just so you know Crikey is (not even real) Aussie lingo and we tip when we get impressive service. We may be bad stingy people because we like our nurses to smile too. Once you start baiting the Kiwi let me know…I realise you were just warming up 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/123 "2008-07-06T15:46:46Z")
[QUOTE=AHunter3] Someone told me that in some Asian cultures a “knife” is considered to be “a weapon” and not appropriate to have at the dinner table, dunno if that’s an urban legend or not. (how anyone could consider a table knife a weapon, or more of one than a chopstick, is beyond me, though) [/QUOTE] My sources tell me that it’s not so much that knives are seen as weapons, but that they are considered tools and it’s kind of gauche to bring something like that to the dinner table where everyone is trying to enjoy each other’s company. It’s like if we showed up to dinner with our own salad spinner- that’s something thats supposed to be done ahead of time, and not by guests, and certainly not while everyone is trying to eat on a crowded table. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/124 "2008-07-06T18:45:39Z")
I’ll have to read the book **Panda** cites sometime, since it sounds genuinely interesting, but I want to register my dubiousness regarding the chopstick claim as well. I can’t think of a chopsticks-distributing restaurant I’ve been to lately (Chinese or Japanese) where I don’t think “Holy shit that’s too much food” in just the same way I do when I go to any other restaurant. On the other hand I’m not suprised at all if people using chopsticks tend to end up eating less yet feeling just as satisfied. I know that it doesn’t really matter how much you eat, just how long it’s been since you started eating. But it is not at all true to my experience that asian restaurants have smaller portions than other restaurants. I myself use chopsticks with perfect facility, but that’s because I use them habitually and used them almost exclusively for the year I lived in Japan. So I would be very suprised if they slowed me down. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/125 "2008-07-06T18:55:28Z")
[QUOTE=calm kiwi] Smiling is bloody compulsory in Kiwi-Land! That’s how we get away with not tipping any bugger! My local Chinese “Love a Duck” brings every meal with chopsticks and FREE tea! It’s a fairly squalid kind of place if you want a fork there is a place you can find one but they certainly ain’t (oh look I used an Americanism!) bringing it to you. Just so you know Crikey is (not even real) Aussie lingo and we tip when we get impressive service. We may be bad stingy people because we like our nurses to smile too. Once you start baiting the Kiwi let me know…I realise you were just warming up 🙂 [/QUOTE] Madder than cut snakes… But you have a lovely country. (seriously). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/126 "2008-07-06T19:50:09Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’ll have to read the book **Panda** cites sometime, since it sounds genuinely interesting, but I want to register my dubiousness regarding the chopstick claim as well. I can’t think of a chopsticks-distributing restaurant I’ve been to lately (Chinese or Japanese) where I don’t think “Holy shit that’s too much food” in just the same way I do when I go to any other restaurant. [/QUOTE] The book doesn’t say anything about regular restaurants, which I agree does seem to be a bit more of a stretch, but does call out buffets as the biggest proponents of chopstick psychology. That should be a bit easier to believe, as at a buffet it’s not uncommon at all for a person to get a second plate (come on, who doesn’t?). If you can slow a person down on that first plate enough to give them time to register being full, you can reduce the size of that second plate by enough to make chopsticks (which are more expensive than silverware) worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/127 "2008-07-06T21:59:54Z")
> [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > No, thankfully mindless tipping is one American tradition that’s not caught on here. Polite Americans tip because our waitstaff don’t get paid living wages, not because we’re lobotomized cows, and you can stick your smug attitude right up your arse. Quite a few Americans, in fact, habitually don’t tip, because they’re rude. And don’t give me “I don’t know,” because you don’t have to know. It’s a fact: American waitstaff do not get paid a salary they can live on, except (maybe) at _some_ of the country’s most expensive restaurants, and probably not there either. And for the record, tipping poorly (or not at all) for poor service is perfectly acceptable here. Even as someone who’s worked in foodservice, I’m quite willing to tip a penny if the service was bad. > [@Fear Itself](#): > > “You go now! You eat too much!”…“No fork. Use chopstick” Come on, now, is that really necessary? We get the idea without the minstrel act at the end. > [@AHunter3](#): > > how anyone could consider a table knife a weapon, or more of one than a chopstick, is beyond me, though Is it? You don’t think you could do more damage with a steel knife than a wooden chopstick with a round point? I have never heard that knives are universally considered weapons in China, but if they are, they would be considered sneaky and backhanded weapons due to their association with daggers, wouldn’t they? Would a table knife not carry much more weapon-like symbolism? It’s much closer in size and shape to a deadly weapon than a chopstick is. The closest weapon to a chopstick would be a bo, and that’s Japanese, not Chinese, not to mention that it’s exponentially larger. > [@chowder](#): > > holidayed? Since you attached a question mark, I assume you’re asking for the American equivalent. We would say “vacationed”, although I think “holidayed” is perfectly comprehensible to the American ear. > [@chowder](#): > > excellent grub By the way, how do you feel about the difference in portion size between the UK and the US? My cousin’s new Scottish husband says he’s still a bit overwhelmed by American portions after having lived here for several months, and I hear his dad gained 20 pounds on his recent visit here. (Of course, Pops came to Minnesota, where vegetarianism is largely unheard of and each meal had better come with a thick slab of meat.) By the way, how, exactly, do you turn up a glass of water over a penny? I can’t picture any method that wouldn’t involve getting the whole table wet. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/128 "2008-07-06T22:02:02Z")
I doubt this thing about chopsticks making you eat less. I think we need to apply Ockham’s Razor here: perhaps East Asian restaurants use chopsticks because East Asians use chopsticks? Just a thought. I also don’t get the accusations of chopstick snobbery. I use the things perfectly, and I manage to do so without my ego being inflated. I can do it because it’s _easy_. The learning curve is short and shallow, putting the skill on about the same low level as using a computer mouse. I detect a touch of aggression in the diehard non-users here. On a practical level, chopsticks are vastly easier to use if you don’t try to use them with Victorian table manners. Pick up that little bowl. Use it as a buffer to scoop food onto the sticks. Take one stick in each hand to break apart big stuff. Lose the strict rules. Slurp! Make a mess! Be merry! ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/129 "2008-07-06T23:18:14Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] I can do it because it’s _easy_. The learning curve is short and shallow, putting the skill on about the same low level as using a computer mouse. I detect a touch of aggression in the diehard non-users here. [/QUOTE] I’ve just moved to China with a group of about 30 people, many of which are retired and a bit more set in their ways. Several professed to not be able to use chopsticks after years of trying. Our first day we walked down to breakfast, and there were no forks. Hell, there were no forks in the whole hotel. You’d be hard pressed to find a fork anywhere in the city except a few ex-pat restaurants. By the dinner that night, everyone had learned. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/130 "2008-07-06T23:19:26Z")
I want to add that I don’t think there is anything wrong with not knowing how to use chopsticks. I can’t shuffle cards, and I’m sure I could probably learn if I wanted to. You pick your battles, yeah? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/131 "2008-07-06T23:40:15Z")
[QUOTE=even sven] I want to add that I don’t think there is anything wrong with not knowing how to use chopsticks. I can’t shuffle cards, and I’m sure I could probably learn if I wanted to. You pick your battles, yeah? [/QUOTE] There’s nothing actually _wrong_ with it, just like there’s nothing wrong with not knowing how to ride a bicycle. It’s just the defensiveness some are showing here that I don’t get - it’s something you can pick up in a single session and have mastered after a small number of meals. As you said, if you need to eat bad enough, you’ll use the sticks. Chinese four year-olds do it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/132 "2008-07-06T23:47:40Z")
A restaurant really should give you a fork & spoon if you live in a country where that’s standard, but I can’t help thinking of this one time a new restaurant opened in my city. Can’t remember the name exactly, but it was basically “The Citrus Cafe.” I’ll never forget going there shortly after it opened to check it out, sitting outside on the patio and hearing this bitch at a nearby table admonishing her waiter “I’m allergic to citrus, so there better not be any citrus in my food!” WTF? It’s called the Citrus Cafe. They’re specialty is citrus! I’ll never understand how some people go so out of their way to be put out. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/133 "2008-07-06T23:52:09Z")
Yeah, my dad went to the “Indian Tea House” and asked for a coffee (never seen him drink a cup of tea in his life). I’ve found an odd thing with western cutlery in Asian restaurants - in sydney, you’ll get chopsticks by default and you 'll need to ask if you want a knife and fork (though I’ve never seen these being anything other but readily forthcoming). In Hong Kong, I _invariably_ was given a knife and fork and I had to ask for chopsticks. Edited to add: you CAN’T eat pho with western cutlery. I’ve seen it tried. Those slippery noodles just laugh at a fork. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/134 "2008-07-07T00:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=Influential Panda] You sure? One of the hallmark effects of psychological hidden persuaders is a straight up denial of their influence. [/QUOTE] Interestingly, that’s one of the hallmark effects of nonexistent psychological hidden persuaders, as well. What do you think about that pixe I sent over to your house to convince you to choose the username **Influential Panda**? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/135 "2008-07-07T00:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] “I’m allergic to citrus, so there better not be any citrus in my food!” [/QUOTE] When life gives you lemons, swell up and die… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/136 "2008-07-07T00:17:26Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] Chinese four year-olds do it. [/QUOTE] They also speak Chinese, though I doubt that makes it any easier for me. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/137 "2008-07-07T00:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=Influential Panda] > [@Broomstick](#): > > Doesn’t work with me - I may be a round-eyes, but I can eat with chopsticks just as fast as a knife and fork. You sure? [/quote] Yeah, I’m sure. I started using chopsticks around 7 or 8. There was enough Asian influence where I was growing up that my skills were encouraged/reinforced. At home I frequently choose to use chopsticks. At work I kept chopsticks for when I either brought something Asian-influenced from home or bought Chinese take-out. The only think I can’t eat just as well with chopsticks as with western utensils is sushi - and actually, I use my fingers for sushi. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/138 "2008-07-07T00:25:33Z")
This raises a real etiquette conundrum for me and my husband - when going out to one of the more traditional Chinese restaraunts and we are provided with a knife-and-fork by default, because we’re white… We can /see/ that Asian diners are given chopsticks, and we want the true, unfettered experience. Now obviously, we’re not as accomplished with chopsticks as we are with a knife and fork, and certainly not as accomplished as someone who grew up using them. Worse, the waiter /knows/ this just by looking at us (or soon will, when he sees us eating), so we feel awkward just requesting - and then using - the chopsticks, but to not do so would seem wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/139 "2008-07-07T00:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] “I’m allergic to citrus, so there better not be any citrus in my food!” [/QUOTE] “Your coat madam”. “Why do i need my coat?” “Because madam is leaving”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370/140 "2008-07-07T00:28:07Z")
I learned when I was about 10 or 11. My brother-in-law said, “Hold it like this, and do this.” And that was it. ONe meal only, and I managed to eat it all. Then nothing until I was about eighteen and was back in the city. I just picked up where I’d left off. I learned a couple of little “tricks” like how to eat slimy button mushrooms, but apart from that I’d managed to remember. I’ve now got a big set of “bbq chopsticks”. I love them. I use them for frying stuff (even Western food). More dextrous than tongs, and they don’t fuck with the Teflon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-i-cant-use-chopsticks/455370.md?page=8)