No I can't use chopsticks

The BBQ Pit
141

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
Is it? You don’t think you could do more damage with a steel knife than a wooden chopstick with a round point? I have never heard that knives are universally considered weapons in China, but if they are, they would be considered sneaky and backhanded weapons due to their association with daggers, wouldn’t they? Would a table knife not carry much more weapon-like symbolism? It’s much closer in size and shape to a deadly weapon than a chopstick is. The closest weapon to a chopstick would be a bo, and that’s Japanese, not Chinese, not to mention that it’s exponentially larger.
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There’s an 8" bo called a finger bo, and martial arts and subsections of martial arts based around using an object about the size and composition of a pen. As to whether a chopstick would be more effective than a table knife is debatable, but you can’t discount the damage that can be done with chopsticks, especially the blunted plastic ones that occasionally surface in Chinese restaurants.

142

[QUOTE=Sierra Indigo]
This raises a real etiquette conundrum for me and my husband - when going out to one of the more traditional Chinese restaraunts and we are provided with a knife-and-fork by default, because we’re white… We can /see/ that Asian diners are given chopsticks, and we want the true, unfettered experience.

Now obviously, we’re not as accomplished with chopsticks as we are with a knife and fork, and certainly not as accomplished as someone who grew up using them. Worse, the waiter /knows/ this just by looking at us (or soon will, when he sees us eating), so we feel awkward just requesting - and then using - the chopsticks, but to not do so would seem wrong.
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I’d advise you to keep at it, but also to RELAX. Next time, look around at the Asian folk dining with you. You’ll notice two things:

  1. They’re actually NOT paying the slightest attention to your chopstick use, and
  2. They are themselves dropping shit everywhere (a messy tablecloth is a compliment to your host - especially in a dim sum joint. Stiff manners can be interpreted as your being disdainful of the food).
143

[QUOTE=calm kiwi]
To me the American system is fucked up, the employer should be paying the wages not the customer. It’s a good thing I have never been to the US because it would irritate me no end if I was expected to pay someones wage bill for them.
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Actually I like the US system because…

…I think it encourages superior performance.

People will leave lower tips and even no tips on occasion in the US. But it’s understood that such actions are punitive.

That said, I think that one should adopt local tipping practices.

Oddly enough, I’m a Westerner who typically has to ask for chopsticks in Asian restaurants. I enjoy using them.

144

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Interestingly, that’s one of the hallmark effects of nonexistent psychological hidden persuaders, as well. What do you think about that pixe I sent over to your house to convince you to choose the username Influential Panda?
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Cute, but ultimately irrelevant. If you disagree with the data that show people who eat with chopsticks eat less on average than their forked companions, by all means offer your own counter argument or run your own experiment to refute my claim. One of us (hint: it’s me) has a cite for his claim, and the other (hint: it’s you) is ignorantly dismissive.

145

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
I doubt this thing about chopsticks making you eat less. I think we need to apply Ockham’s Razor here: perhaps East Asian restaurants use chopsticks because East Asians use chopsticks? Just a thought.
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Oh fuck it, look. If you have trouble believing that chopsticks influence a person to eat less, then take it up with the scientists who did the research. I have responsibly referred everyone in this thread to the proper resources to find the information they don’t believe. If you don’t believe it and haven’t read my cites, it’s ignorant speculation and nothing more.

Wansink, B. & Payne, C. R. “The Cues and Correlates of Overeating at the Chinese Buffet,” (working paper at time of publishing, should be found in peer-reviewed journal by now)

Schachter, S., Friedman, L.N, & Handler, J. “Who Eats with Chopsticks?” Obese Humans and Rats (Hoboken, NJ: Wiley & Sons 1974)

146

[QUOTE=suranyi]
Uh, that would be me, if I ever went to a restaurant that only had chopsticks.

At various times people have tried to teach me to use chopsticks many times during my life, without success. I just can’t get the hang of them.

It’s actually pretty embarrassing, because my wife is American-born Chinese, and when dining with her family, they always use chopsticks.

Ed
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I thought it would be clear that I was speaking about people who are at least reasonably proficient with chopsticks, but apparently not.

147

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
By the way, how, exactly, do you turn up a glass of water over a penny? I can’t picture any method that wouldn’t involve getting the whole table wet.
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It’s just physics - atmospheric pressure, surface tension and a smooth table top. You can’t pull this off at a place with linen tablecloths or much texture on the table surface. Smooth formica is best.

Drop your pennies into a full water glass. Cover the glass with stiff paper or plastic - perhaps a page from that laminated dessert menu? Or, wad up enough money to pay the check, put that in the glass and use the check to cover the glass. In one deft motion, flip the glass upside-down, set it down on the table and slide out the paper. Scram.

148

[QUOTE=Influential Panda]
Oh fuck it, look. If you have trouble believing that chopsticks influence a person to eat less, then take it up with the scientists who did the research. I have responsibly referred everyone in this thread to the proper resources to find the information they don’t believe. If you don’t believe it and haven’t read my cites, it’s ignorant speculation and nothing more.

Wansink, B. & Payne, C. R. “The Cues and Correlates of Overeating at the Chinese Buffet,” (working paper at time of publishing, should be found in peer-reviewed journal by now)

Schachter, S., Friedman, L.N, & Handler, J. “Who Eats with Chopsticks?” Obese Humans and Rats (Hoboken, NJ: Wiley & Sons 1974)
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Orrite, keep yer fucken knickers on, will yer?

Look, I don’t have a problem with your position. Sorry, let me rephrase that: I don’t have a problem with the notion that there are ways of fooling people into thinking they’ve eaten/drunk more than they have (it’s an old caterer’s trick that if you have a given amount of beer, you just provide smaller glasses and let people go back for more) and I’m sure your cites are sound ones that reflect this - but I think you’re reading a little too much into it.

Firstly, the shopping mall food court type buffet places I’ve been to have invariably provided both shitty balsa chopsticks and shitty plastic cutlery. These tend to be big retail chain type places that are no doubt run by folks with greater marketing expertise than you or me. I’d wager that there are diehard chopstick folks out there and diehard knife and fork folks out there, and the potential cost of alienating one of those groups is greater than the small savings from some psychological tweaking at the edges. As for the ma and pa Chinese restaurants - at least the ones I go to - I suspect they probably haven’t even thought about it. They also offer both.

Now, upthread you refered to chopstick-only places. Here, and in several countries in Asia, I have yet to see one of those. I’d suspect they’re losing customers by the fistful, and that would override any perceived savings. The customers in the places I visit are mostly Asian - if you gave them bigger portions and a knife and fork, I suspect they’d go up the street to the place with smaller portions and chopsticks. I think my point still stands. Any reduction in overheads due to the phenomenon you mention is just an added bonus to them, but not their prime motivation.

149

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]

By the way, how do you feel about the difference in portion size between the UK

Yours are way to big. 9 out of 10 times I’ve been unable to finish a meal, and don’t get me started on the size of your pizzas :eek:

150

One of its legs is both the same size.

151

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
Now, upthread you refered to chopstick-only places. Here, and in several countries in Asia, I have yet to see one of those. I’d suspect they’re losing customers by the fistful, and that would override any perceived savings.
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Hm, I wonder how true that is in the rural areas of Asia. We certainly get tourists up here in northern Honshu, but it’s not on the same scale that the cities get (except maybe during festival or cherry blossom time). I actually have no idea if the small bar/restaurants have forks and knives here. There’s no food served at these places that require cutting, or at least not knife cutting. I honestly haven’t asked.

Now I’m curious, but I think I’d still be too embarassed to ask about it. I’ll see if I can find out in a roundabout fashion (hey look, I’m turning Japanese already!).

152

I know that in Vietnam, you can get knives and forks even in the most backwoods places (well, come to think of it, maybe forks and spoons), simply because they use them themselves for some dishes.

153

[QUOTE=Influential Panda]
Am I getting whooshed? Can you seriously not see why a restaurant would want to serve you less food?
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The basic problem here is that (a) the OP is not about a buffet style restaurant and (b) non-buffet style asian restaurants tend to be very generous with their portions to the extent that it is the norm not be able to finish the food.

These two points make your whole point one that might be interesting in the right context but one that is utterly irrelevant here, which is why you getting no traction.

154

[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect]
Polite Americans tip because our waitstaff don’t get paid living wages, not because we’re lobotomized cows, and you can stick your smug attitude right up your arse.
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But that doesn’t detract from the point that it is a silly tradition. The only good argument for tipping is that it encourages good service, but you only have to read this very thread to see the problem: it has become entrenched in a way that detracts from the justification of the tradition in the first place. Everyone from the restaurant owner to the tax office to the waitstaff themselves see tips as a virtual certainty, so that service actually has to be exceptionally bad before not tipping is socially justifiable.

155

[QUOTE=even sven]
I’ve just moved to China with a group of about 30 people, many of which are retired and a bit more set in their ways. Several professed to not be able to use chopsticks after years of trying.

Our first day we walked down to breakfast, and there were no forks. Hell, there were no forks in the whole hotel. You’d be hard pressed to find a fork anywhere in the city except a few ex-pat restaurants.

By the dinner that night, everyone had learned.
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I had some trouble learning to use chopsticks, but I actually worked my way up to basic competancy, enough to get the job done at least – until I developed carpal tunnel syndrome. Now, about 1/4 into the meal, I start to lose my grip strength and literally can’t operate the chopsticks anymore. What do people in China do if they have carpal tunnel syndrome? (Or, like my dad, if they have nerve damage that makes their hand numb?) If there really aren’t any Western utensils around, they can’t just not eat, right?

156

[QUOTE=meenie7]
I had some trouble learning to use chopsticks, but I actually worked my way up to basic competancy, enough to get the job done at least – until I developed carpal tunnel syndrome. Now, about 1/4 into the meal, I start to lose my grip strength and literally can’t operate the chopsticks anymore. What do people in China do if they have carpal tunnel syndrome? (Or, like my dad, if they have nerve damage that makes their hand numb?) If there really aren’t any Western utensils around, they can’t just not eat, right?
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They get an old master with a long white beard to beat the shit out of them until they can will their carpal tunnel’d hands to once again grasp the chopsticks.

157

Fuck you, you cunt. Mindless tipping = retarded.

158

[QUOTE=meenie7]
. What do people in China do if they have carpal tunnel syndrome? (Or, like my dad, if they have nerve damage that makes their hand numb?) If there really aren’t any Western utensils around, they can’t just not eat, right?
[/QUOTE]

I imagine they use a spoon.

159

[QUOTE=Full Metal Lotus]
One thing westerners forget/overlook is that the tiny bowl you eat out of is a utensil as well.. if you want food on a plate, get a knife and fork. If you want a combination of flavour, aroma, lift the bowl to your face…

rant much// i do
sorry
FML
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My brother was in China last year and came back saying “now I understand what we’re doing wrong with the chopsticks! The Chinese bring the bowls almost up to their mouth, so there’s a very short path for the food to fall off, and if it does it doesn’t send sauce to your shirt.”

Thing is, that’s so different from the way occidentals are used to treating our utensils, it simply doesn’t occur to us.

160

[QUOTE=Influential Panda]
Cute, but ultimately irrelevant. If you disagree with the data that show people who eat with chopsticks eat less on average than their forked companions, by all means offer your own counter argument or run your own experiment to refute my claim. One of us (hint: it’s me) has a cite for his claim, and the other (hint: it’s you) is ignorantly dismissive.
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The problem is that your cites are lousy. You’ve not quoted relevant bits from the research, you’ve not linked to online versions of this research, and one of your cites is to research that hasn’t even been published yet. For all I know, you’ve badly misinterpreted the research (which seems likely: if your theory were correct, we’d see chopsticks at some non-Asian buffets, or we’d see forks at Asian non-buffets, or some similar disparity between buffets and non-buffets). I’m sure as hell not going to go to the nearest university library to do a search on Obesity in Humans and Rats over chopsticks.

You may be correct in your cites, but your presentation of them is wholly unconvincing.

Daniel